Units missing...? (From what I have seen from streams)

manacerace

Chieftain
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I'have been watching some of the streams and I noticed that some units and buildings are missing in the game, especially in the medieval era:
- medieval era swordsman (there is the classical era one, but then we jump directly to the muskeeters)
- trabuchet (no medieval bombard units, just the siege tower from the previus era)
- castles??
- reinassance era melee unit (there is only the musketeer from the industrial era)
- great war infantry unit?

What do you think? Are they defintely out? Or I have missed something...? Or matbe they are still in the works?
 
Most units appear to generate two eras of worth. Archers and Spearmen (ancient) aren't replaced until the Medieval era. Catapults and swordsman (classical) are replaced in renaissance era. Musketeers are renaissance, so you're mistaken there - and again, they're replaced two eras later by Infantry in the modern era.

castles are essentially replaced by medieval walls.
 
I'have been watching some of the streams and I noticed that some units and buildings are missing in the game, especially in the medieval era:
- medieval era swordsman (there is the classical era one, but then we jump directly to the muskeeters)
Units jump 2 eras classical swordsman to renaissance musketeer
[there are 2 lines of each types of units]
2 range lines (archers+catapults)
2 cavalry lines (knights and horsemen)
2 melee lines (swords and spears)

They alternate by eras (with a weird cavalry/spear gap in industrial/renaissance)
so
(the pikeman is the melee medieval unit)


- trabuchet (no medieval bombard units, just the siege tower from the previus era)
Medieval range is crossbow

- castles??
There is a medieval wall building

- reinassance era melee unit (there is only the musketeer from the industrial era)
Musketeer is renaissance... there is no industrial melee unit because the cavalry line skips renaissance

- great war infantry unit?
That is the Infantry unit (modern era...also known as the WWI era)

What do you think? Are they defintely out? Or I have missed something...? Or matbe they are still in the works?

definitely out and I'm glad of it, a less cluttered unit tree and units that start to go effectively obsolete before they can get upgraded
 
Units jump 2 eras classical swordsman to renaissance musketeer
[there are 2 lines of each types of units]
2 range lines (archers+catapults)
2 cavalry lines (knights and horsemen)
2 melee lines (swords and spears)

They alternate by eras (with a weird cavalry/spear gap in industrial/renaissance)
so
(the pikeman is the melee medieval unit)



Medieval range is crossbow


There is a medieval wall building


Musketeer is renaissance... there is no industrial melee unit because the cavalry line skips renaissance


That is the Infantry unit (modern era...also known as the WWI era)



definitely out and I'm glad of it, a less cluttered unit tree and units that start to go effectively obsolete before they can get upgraded





I must disagree, the tech tree in CIV 5 was not oversaturated with units, they were simply unlocked too quickly due to bad positioning in the tech tree. Now having the tech tree and the civics tree the problem is mostly solved.


It is absolutely immersion breaking to have no medieval naval units and no industrial era infantry to close the gap between muskets and modern infantry. These are the most obvious missing units, there should also be a renaissance cavalry unit and a medieval siege unit.



Again, the units becoming obsolete too quickly were either due to playing on quick speed or to bad spacing in between units in the tech tree, nothing that cannot be solved. More units equals more variety and fun and surely they will be added in future expansions.
 
I think with expansions the other missing units will make an appearance. They did keep the biplane which is interesting. I am not into futuristic units like death robots. Instead, I hope they concentrate more on medieval, WWI, and the Cold War units more so in this game. Maybe they will add a regular cruiser this time. Did civ 4 have a cruiser? I can't remember.

These are the units I'd like to see longsword, trebuchet, GW infantry, dreadnought, cruiser, Cold War fighter and bomber. Then they could make some interesting support units like a mortar crew for instance, to attach to infantry. Now some people may that units will become obsolete before they can be used. This is why developers should learn from modders. Make a tacturns option to make eras a bit longer. Slow down research times a bit and speed up unit production, while reducing unit maintenance somewhat. This small change would solve that issue. I do not playing a bit longer games anyway. Then if you want a more limited techtree like Civ 6 has now to make the games shorter, then there should be an option for that as well.
 
I must disagree, the tech tree in CIV 5 was not oversaturated with units, they were simply unlocked too quickly due to bad positioning in the tech tree. Now having the tech tree and the civics tree the problem is mostly solved.


It is absolutely immersion breaking to have no medieval naval units and no industrial era infantry to close the gap between muskets and modern infantry. These are the most obvious missing units, there should also be a renaissance cavalry unit and a medieval siege unit.



Again, the units becoming obsolete too quickly were either due to playing on quick speed or to bad spacing in between units in the tech tree, nothing that cannot be solved. More units equals more variety and fun and surely they will be added in future expansions.

Units going obsolete too quickly is one problem and it can't just be solved by repositioning units. (the more units there are the less space is between them (in # of turns adding more techs/civics changes nothing))

There is also the problem that the more units there are, the less useful they will be. (at least some of them.)

Civ6 seems like it still has too many useless units, although some of that is balancing and making units besides ranged units worth building. (but even perfectly balanced... the more units, the more useless they are (balancing can only help so much)

They probably will add more with expansions... I just hope they don't add too many more units.
 
I must disagree, the tech tree in CIV 5 was not oversaturated with units, they were simply unlocked too quickly due to bad positioning in the tech tree. Now having the tech tree and the civics tree the problem is mostly solved.


It is absolutely immersion breaking to have no medieval naval units and no industrial era infantry to close the gap between muskets and modern infantry. These are the most obvious missing units, there should also be a renaissance cavalry unit and a medieval siege unit.



Again, the units becoming obsolete too quickly were either due to playing on quick speed or to bad spacing in between units in the tech tree, nothing that cannot be solved. More units equals more variety and fun and surely they will be added in future expansions.

I think they should bring back multiple requirements again. like in Civ 4, where to unlock Spearmen you needed both Hunting AND Bronze Working.
 
To me the ones that are really missing IMHO are:

- Industrial era anti-cavalry unit, as pikes were not used after 1750.
- Industrial heavy cavalry, should be cuirassers.

And as a bonus the observation balloon could turn into a recon drone in the information era.

Light cavalry with lances lasting for few ages are accurate, as until late 1800 were used.

Galleys during the medieval era are correct too, you just need to check the Lepanto Battle's paintings.

* NOTE: Swordsman is the ancient-medieval melee unit. Pikeman is the one from the anti-cav tree.
 
I do agree the gaps seem very big between units. It has the unfortunate effect of making unit upgrades very powerful. We have seen in several videos how people can crush everything with a couple of Crossbows if they get them early, which is not exactly good for balance. There was a reason why the Composite Bowman was introduced back in Civ5, go figure ...
 
To me the ones that are really missing IMHO are:

- Industrial era anti-cavalry unit, as pikes were not used after 1750.
- Industrial heavy cavalry, should be cuirassers.

And as a bonus the observation balloon could turn into a recon drone in the information era.

Light cavalry with lances lasting for few ages are accurate, as until late 1800 were used.

Galleys during the medieval era are correct too, you just need to check the Lepanto Battle's paintings.

* NOTE: Swordsman is the ancient-medieval melee unit. Pikeman is the one from the anti-cav tree.

I think the solution to the industrial era unit should be like a civics technology that automatically grants your musketman a promotion that makes them either anti cavalry or anti infantry. This would reflect the changes in military doctrine and organization that changed infantry roles in this time period. And it would be in civics tree for two reasons, realism: these were social / military thinking changes rather than technological upgrades. Gameplay: give culturally advanced a counter to scientifically advanced civs.
 
As of right now, apart from offering a unit type of every class in every single era, which unless the tech tree were expanded significantly, would be ludicrous, they almost perfectly cascade unit type/class upgrades across all eras so that you're getting units of similar types but of different classes in every era. The unit classes are;

Melee, Ranged, Anti-cavalry, Heavy Cavalry, Light Cavalry, Siege, Naval Melee, Naval Ranged, Naval Raider, Air Fighter, Air Bomber, and finally Support - which are all one class and offer a bunch of different perks.

This essentially translate to two different classes of every unit "type" - Two ranged units, Two Mobile units, Two melee units, two Air units and [Three] Naval units.

Each unit class usually lasts two eras, while a new unit of the same type is added every era. I see little reason to change it. You can see the upgrade path by class and era below, and you can notice how it usually cascades with units of similar types;


Notice how the Ranged/Siege lines cascade perfectly every two eras (discounting slinger). The only breaks in this pattern is that the AT units comes an era late, which is fine when you consider that so do both the Light and Heavy cavalry upgrades past the medieval era. The Caravel also finds itself back one era, but appropriately in my mind, the renaissance also adds raider ships - the pattern of two era usability continues after this . Planes are obviously exempt from this pattern as they come at the very late game.

So really, observing the pattern and looking at the numbers -There are 4 of every major unit class apart from planes and raiders, not including start units. So the only unit that is "missing" is 1 Horse unit. Specifically, an additional light cavalry. But I find the skip a reasonable one in order to push back the pattern in preparation for the modern units.

I do agree the gaps seem very big between units. It has the unfortunate effect of making unit upgrades very powerful. We have seen in several videos how people can crush everything with a couple of Crossbows if they get them early, which is not exactly good for balance. There was a reason why the Composite Bowman was introduced back in Civ5, go figure ...
I don't think anything about the footage we've seen can be taken as an accurate reflection of game balance. That said, I disagree with your assessment as I watched one video where a handful of Field Cannons went up against a handful of knights and nearly lost. But ranged units have always been inherently more powerful in the hands of a player over an A.I.
 
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While the jumps are a little jarring, I think it's good for them to err on the side of of fewer units to begin with, and identify gaps where units can be added in a later expansion.

It's good to add units that fill a role in game, rather than having units that obsolete too quickly to be useful just for the sake of it.
 
Each unit class usually lasts two eras, while a new unit of the same type is added every era. I see little reason to change it. You can see the upgrade path by class and era below, and you can notice how it usually cascades with units of similar type.
It's not Rifleman, it' Ranger. Other than that - I fully agree. The game is designed around longer-lasting units and that's a good change, at least for speeds from Standard and faster.
 
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