Universities..

Discussion in 'Civ3 - General Discussions' started by Rickard77, Dec 31, 2012.

  1. Rickard77

    Rickard77 Chieftain

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    Wonder much whats the point in building them. When you discover Education, the cities automatically switch to start building those, regardless of how small they are.

    But what I can see they doesnt have any larger effect on science. Maybe it takes one or two lesser turns to discover new techs, but wheres the big difference?
     
  2. Suisami

    Suisami Chieftain

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    You can't see it because the rate that you build them draws out the effect. Literally go to the map editor. Give yourself 6 cities of 6 population, all with roads and irrigation on a flat island of grassland. Start the game. See how many turns it take to research a tech. Then go back to the editor and give each city a library. Start a new game of it. You'll noticed that all techs are 50% faster to research. Do the same with universities and you'll see the same effect.

    Trust you could try playing a game without building universities. It's a much slower game. Btw you do you have you're cities automated like that? You should control the production yourself. It's okay to have the governor regulate the population (though still not preferred) but letting them regulate production will really bit you in the arse.
     
  3. Theov

    Theov Deity

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    I don't recommend putting production on auto.
    You can go to the governor thing in the city (little box in the middle near the bottom) and switch it off.

    As for unis: they add to your light bulb production (science). So if your city is building y amount, then the uni will make it 1.5 * y.
    If you do this in most of your cities you will notice you research techs faster.

    Of course, if you only produce a few bulbs, then the upkeep of the university (2 GPT) offsets the benefits in science... so don't build them in cities producing anything less than 6 bulbs.
     
  4. Quintillus

    Quintillus Archiving Civ3 Content Supporter

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    But even if it's only one or two turns, that adds up over time. That will likely add up to at least one tech by the end of the Middle Ages, and probably another 3 or so in the Industrial Ages. Quite possibly more - these are guesses.

    The 1.5 times factor isn't quite correct, however. The library does give a 50% bonus. But if you build both a library and a university, you only get double the science that you would with neither - so it's in effect a 33% bonus from building the library. Still, that is significant. Because of maintenance it won't be quite as good as that in real life, but if you figure a 25% bonus after paying maintenance, it's still worth it - and will have a sizeable effect on mid-to-late-game research.

    (In other words, the science bonus is to your base science, not your science after all other bonuses)
     
  5. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    In addition to what the previous speakers already said, I would like to add: of course it also depends on what victory you are aiming for. If your goal is a military victory (e.g. conquer the world with Cavalry), then Universities are of course useless. You will build a couple of libraries to speed up the path to Military Tradition, but you will not invest beakers into researching the techs up to Education and shields into building Universities. Both these things would only delay your military victory.
    However, if you are planning for a space race victory or a UN victory, Universities are incredibly powerful, so you have to build them as soon as possible. In these cases I bee-line for Education and prepare pre-builds for Universities in all my core towns. This may easily mean the difference between a spaceship launch in 2000 AD and a spaceship launch in 1600 AD!!
     
  6. Richie0

    Richie0 Warlord

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    if you are scientific, then your best 9 cities (core cities) get them

    unless they have terrible shield production of course. but if that's the case, they are probably harbour cities with lots of commerce and beakers, and you can cash rush one....

    if you are not scientific, then your capital gets one, and maybe one or two of your very best science producing cities

    you have to ask yourself whether you need the university, or an extra unit or two to attack with
     
  7. Suisami

    Suisami Chieftain

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    Ugh you need more universities then that. The extra unit or two want help you if you're already behind on defense. And if you aren't behind, then the extra unit or 2 wont matter. Compared to getting to that next tech faster, and producing better units, its not as useful.
     
  8. Richie0

    Richie0 Warlord

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    universities are expensive

    i give cities a library if they're producing 10 or more beakers (regardless of scientific or not)

    universities, 20+ beakers (if not scientific)

    this is just a rule of thumb i use, it works quite well and keeps maintenance costs down

    scientific, yes, i'll build them more often

    but if i'm not scientific, then it's a lot of shields and a fair bit of maintenance

    modern age techs, i usually research in 6-7 turns, 5 turns if i can push the slider all the way

    i don't particularly care about modern age techs in 4 turns, because if the game has lasted that long, i've likely already won

    i don't build defensive units, unless they're infantry, or riflemen if i share borders with a civ who has cavalry or knights

    that extra knight or cavalry can mean the difference between a city being taken or not

    an extra university won't win wars, and won't add much on

    if you have 9 universities, then the 10th won't make much difference

    if you have 2, then yes, the 3rd could make a difference

    regardless, i prefer to get banks down, since with a pre-build to smiths, i'll be paying nothing for them

    marketplaces are in my cities regardless, unless a city is producing 1 shield
     
  9. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

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  10. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

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  11. CKS

    CKS Deity

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    It is sometimes still worth it if you have to squeeze every beaker. When you are running 100% science, you put all of your commerce into beakers, but you can't put the money you get from the AI into beakers. You can pay the maintenance with the money you get from the AI. Getting one extra beaker per turn and using 2 gpt from the AI to pay for it is sometimes worth it. Usually there are better solutions, though.
     

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