Unsolicited Advice to the Government of Iran

Amin001

Heretic
Joined
Feb 23, 2007
Messages
456
Location
Texas
""
Presuming that you are not actually ignorant enough to desire war with the United States, you might be well advised to read the history of the sinking of the U.S.S. Maine in Havana harbor in 1898 and the history of the Gulf of Tonkin in 1964.

Having done so, you will surely recognize that Americans are reluctant to go to war unless attacked. Until Pearl Harbor, we were even reluctant to get involved in World War II. For historians of American wars the question is whether we provoke provocations.

Given the unilateral U.S. invasion of Iraq in 2003, you are obviously thinking the rules have changed. Provocation is no longer required to take America to war. But even in this instance, we were led to believe that the mass murderer of American civilians, Osama bin Laden, was lurking, literally or figuratively, in the vicinity of Baghdad.

Given all this, you would probably be well advised to keep your forces, including clandestine forces, as far away from the Iraqi border as you can. You might even consider bringing in some neighbors to verify that you are not shipping arms next door. Tone down the rhetoric on Zionism. You've established your credentials with those in your world who thrive on that.

If it makes you feel powerful to hurl accusations at the American eagle, have at it. Sticks and stones, etc. But, for the next sixteen months or so, you should not only not take provocative actions, you should not seem to be doing so.

For the vast majority of Americans who seek no wider war, in the Middle East or elsewhere, don't tempt fate. Don't give a certain vice president we know the justification he is seeking to attack your country. That is unless you happen to like having bombs fall on your head.
""
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gary-hart/unsolicited-advice-to-the_b_65984.html


What is he trying to say?! Hopefully im missreading this.

Can you guys clear this up for me?
 
As far as I can tell, he's saying: Don't F*** with the USA...we will mess you up! We've gone to war over less....

I wish I could read farsi so I could see similar blogs by Iranians saying the same thing, with some name changes...
 
What freaked me out was this.

"Presuming that you are not actually ignorant enough to desire war with the United States, you might be well advised to read the history of the sinking of the U.S.S. Maine in Havana harbor in 1898 and the history of the Gulf of Tonkin in 1964.

Having done so, you will surely recognize that Americans are reluctant to go to war unless attacked. Until Pearl Harbor, we were even reluctant to get involved in World War II. For historians of American wars the question is whether we provoke provocations."
 
""
Presuming that you are not actually ignorant enough to desire war with the United States, you might be well advised to read the history of the sinking of the U.S.S. Maine in Havana harbor in 1898 and the history of the Gulf of Tonkin in 1964.

Having done so, you will surely recognize that Americans are reluctant to go to war unless attacked. Until Pearl Harbor, we were even reluctant to get involved in World War II. For historians of American wars the question is whether we provoke provocations.

Given the unilateral U.S. invasion of Iraq in 2003, you are obviously thinking the rules have changed. Provocation is no longer required to take America to war. But even in this instance, we were led to believe that the mass murderer of American civilians, Osama bin Laden, was lurking, literally or figuratively, in the vicinity of Baghdad.

Given all this, you would probably be well advised to keep your forces, including clandestine forces, as far away from the Iraqi border as you can. You might even consider bringing in some neighbors to verify that you are not shipping arms next door. Tone down the rhetoric on Zionism. You've established your credentials with those in your world who thrive on that.

If it makes you feel powerful to hurl accusations at the American eagle, have at it. Sticks and stones, etc. But, for the next sixteen months or so, you should not only not take provocative actions, you should not seem to be doing so.

For the vast majority of Americans who seek no wider war, in the Middle East or elsewhere, don't tempt fate. Don't give a certain vice president we know the justification he is seeking to attack your country. That is unless you happen to like having bombs fall on your head.
""
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gary-hart/unsolicited-advice-to-the_b_65984.html


What is he trying to say?! Hopefully im missreading this.

Can you guys clear this up for me?

he made one major mistake. the gulf of tonkin incident was fabricated or at least heavily exaggerated
 
you made one major mistake. the gulf of tonkin incident was fabricated or at least heavily exaggerated

I think that was his point: if the US lacks justification for war, they will manufacture one...
 
bringing up the Maine was a really bad idea too. yellow journalism, not the sinking of the Maine, brought the country into war
 
Ah, the Eternal Loser.

He's basically saying that Americans are stupid, the Bush administration is war-crazy, and if Iran pretends to play ball with us, they might just be lucky enough to sit out this administration and wait for some Chamberlain II to come into office, when they can go bathorsehocky crazy again like now.
 
The wingnut establishment of politicians and commentariat are trying desperately to reposition their pundit base for war with Iran, which means that its leader is the new hitle^H^H^Saddam. I think half-baked references to Chamberlain and appeasement and stuff are something like Step 3 in the "how to manufacture an enemy" manual.
 
Gonna have to agree with Che Guava & Phlegmak on this one... more a reminder of "Its not us who decide how this one pans out" than anything else...

Coincidentally I don't think the Tonkin incident is a great example of ". .. .. .. . with us and get messed up"... thats not the full story of how the Vietnam war turned out is it...
 
Unsolicited advice to Iran is certainly preferable to unsolicited sex with Iran. Either way, hopefully Iran is picking up our signals.
 
Actually pearl harbour was a manufactured provocation too.

The Us had placed an oil embargo on Japan. Also the ships at Pearl Harbour were mostly older vessels, thats not where the Us navy kept most of the pacific fleet.

And they knew fully well about the japanese fleet on its way over. There are reports of english intelligence on the matter. Would be very strange if the brits knew, but the american generals and admirals didn't.

There are a number of books written on the subject. I read a great article about it a year ago. I might dig up a link for you later.


This sutff the bushies have been saying about Iran arming the insurgents in iraq is pure nonsense. Theyre saying the iranians have been giving them shaped charges. A shaped charge is not complicated in any way. I can teach anyone how to make one in 5 minutes.
Or hell you could probably find out how to yourself of google or wikipedia.

If the iranians wanted to arm the insurgents, they would give them shoulder fired stinger type missiles, and you would see alot of american helicopter downed over Baghdad, with many many casaulties as a result.
 
The Us had placed an oil embargo on Japan. Also the ships at Pearl Harbour were mostly older vessels, thats not where the Us navy kept most of the pacific fleet.
Older vessels such as aircraft carriers that fueled the island hopping across the Pacific for the next four years. :p They were just gone that particular day. The oil embargo was in retaliation for a Japanese occupation and invasion of French Indochina, plus the minor war that they had been having for four years with China, another unprovoked aggression during the course of which Japanese bombers had attacked an American ship in China, the Panay. It was a measure, relatively common even at the time (viz. the embargoes on Italy for the Abyssinian invasion) to try to end military conflict without escalation. Japan was forced to halt their war or make it a bigger one; the Japanese leaders chose war consciously as a gamble for Pacific domination, not to protect themselves. They had the chance to peacefully resolve the whole issue and decided not to take that route.
JawzII said:
And they knew fully well about the japanese fleet on its way over. There are reports of english intelligence on the matter. Would be very strange if the brits knew, but the american generals and admirals didn't.
These days, yes. Back in the forties?...American relations with Britain were fairly good, but not terrific. The Atlantic Charter aside, IIRC America and the UK didn't share most information with each other.

But that's not the point - the Americans had a radar signal of the approaching Japanese Zeros and a good deal of time in which to transmit the information. Admiral Husband Kimmel ignored it as a "glitch"; thus we have Pearl Harbor. Incompetence and/or overconfidence were the causes of the "successful" attack on Pearl Harbor, not American cooperation.
JawzII said:
There are a number of books written on the subject. I read a great article about it a year ago. I might dig up a link for you later.
Hooray for conspiracy theories. :p Or, alternatively, we could believe that the United States navy leadership on the spot were incompetent or at least overconfident, which sounds a good deal more believable than American cooperation and/or acquiescence in Japanese moves to attack.
 
It says " We are Idiots , you are also Idiots so try not to make us angry."
 
I hope the USA Army goes to Iran and get the backside handed to 'em. I mean, dad kinda watched Vietnam. So, I wanna see Iran and tell to my sons how Americans are bad for chosing wars.
 
I hope the USA Army goes to Iran and get the backside handed to 'em. I mean, dad kinda watched Vietnam. So, I wanna see Iran and tell to my sons how Americans are bad for chosing wars.

You want thousands of people to perish in a war so you can better carry your own distorted views to your kids?
 
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