Untitled Space mod

[dalek master]

"Space," it says, "is big. Realy big. You just won't believe how vastly hugely mindboggingly big it is. I mean you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space. Listen..." and so on

- Douglas Adams, the hitchiker's guide to the galaxy.​

I have wanted to do this mod ever since I saw a civ3 screenshot of jupiter and I have been testing for a while now for the best ways. Finaly, I have broken past a certain barrier and am onto the more general coding, and my dad said it would be a good idea to post it now nice it early. You may go
"That looks horrible" or
"Ugh Im going off to support the other titles".
But then thats your choice, as this mod may not even come to be. This is a very early stage, but I have a ideas for the races (which there will be lots), fleets and mechanics. Don't worry, if I do get further in this, the graphics will be upped some bit. Wish me luck and I may just get to the recruiting stage! Who knows maybe Ill use this thread someday if it gets more advanced. If you wish to know, the picture shows a sun and my only current planets (same texture) orbiting it (no they do not move around they are still)

READ BEFORE EXPECTING THE MODIFICATION:
I am working on this project (expect it to not to be realsed) alone at the moment. Please don't ask to help.....yet. Im going to try and do this, but certain factors, including the rest of my life my skill, and if this is even possible will probably come in the way. Either way I am possitive to do it. If I fail, I will post my work so others can do it...

Untiled Space Mod (Tempory Title):
Aims, Goals.......expect additons, and more likely a big black "CANCELD sign".

• Play human or alien in civ format in the "great system cluster"
• Different Planets to grow cities on
• Space-ships
• Space objects scattered around the map

29th, May, 06

 

[The Great Apple]

Looks like a good start. Are you planning on having the planets move? That would be cool!

 

[dalek master]

Looks like a good start. Are you planning on having the planets move? That would be cool!

lol. TGA do you want to delay my project for a second time? It took me long enough to make them 3D like you suggested... .

I can see it possible, but it would be a long and labour-filled task

 

[The Great Apple]

lol. TGA do you want to delay my project for a second time? It took me long enough to make them 3D like you suggested... .

They look cool in 3D - I can't wait to see them more textured with a nice glowing effect on the star!

I can see it possible, but it would be a long and labour-filled task

I wasn't thinking physically move on the screen in real time - that would have rather large gameplay implications as you'd never know what tile you were on. I was thinking more like moving one square round in the orbit every turn or something. That probably wouldn't be too hard with the application of a little maths, and some python.

Ok, I know you are just starting, but seeing as I've had "space mod" ideas floating in the back of my head for a while I thought I'd post this idea:

chrusion is working on a method to have sub-maps in the game. My suggestion would be to have each solar system as a sub map, represtented only by a star on the main map. Managing your cities would happen within the sub map - you would colonise the planets separately within in each system, deciding if each one was worth the effort. You'd start of with only the ability to move within your submap, with the first tech you research granting the ability to move to the main map, where movement would take place.

As you say - space is big. Inter-system travel should be completely different to inter-planitary travel - the distances involved are so mind-bogglingly greater.

In my opinion, that would be awsome. Really awsome.

 

[dalek master]

chrusion is working on a method to have sub-maps in the game. My suggestion would be to have each solar system as a sub map, represtented only by a star on the main map. Managing your cities would happen within the sub map - you would colonise the planets separately within in each system, deciding if each one was worth the effort. You'd start of with only the ability to move within your submap, with the first tech you research granting the ability to move to the main map, where movement would take place.

As you say - space is big. Inter-system travel should be completely different to inter-planitary travel - the distances involved are so mind-bogglingly greater.

In my opinion, that would be awsome. Really awsome.

How did you know I was thinking a bit like that? I had to make a desicion:
systems or planets?

I chose planets. With planets, I can add a nicer more homely feel to the mod becuse thats what its about, the Untitled Space Mod (I have'nt decided on a name). But systems could be a lot more intriguing. But I am just starting out and anything too big might blow it down. I am still highly intrested in that though. One thing, would fleets (units) just pop in and out of a system or would you have to have another system of doing things? I think the pop-in pop-out seems the best idea, but Im getting ahead of myself again.

But that move around each tile thing? oooooooh. I thought that when I was brain-storiming but it seemed to far away. Maybe in a long time, but for now? Either way Im going to have to learn python for some of this, already the civopedia is in a mess because of the way Ive been usign the game elements.

 

[The Great Apple]

Personally I think systems would be the best way of managing it. Lots of systems, and all you see in the main view is a bright star to make the location of the system.

When you double-click on it it transitions to a map of the system with all the planets (one tile each), and your cities are the planets. Each city can build a different thing. If it's a building it goes to the city, if it's a unit it goes to the systems unit pool (basically the main map). Improvements could be things like shipyards, or orbital hydroponics, or huuuuge solar energy collectors, or astroid mines, or... I can't think of any more, but stuff like that.

Not quite sure how I'd have combat take place. The simplest way would just to have it take place outside the sub-maps in the global maps. Would require much less AI programming, and would probably not break multiplayer, which is good.

The submaps, however, are very easy to add at a later stage once you have the core done - you just have the one city per-system to start.

Sorry if I'm kinda zooming off in different directions to what you had planned. I'm being enthusiastic - that screenshot got me excited.

If you need any coding help feel free to PM me. I've a strange feeling I'll reach the stage with the 40k mod where everything is ready... except the shedloads of graphics that I have to do so I may find myself at a loose end, and would love to help out with this!

 

[dalek master]

thanks TGA. I think i should get along with the orginal plan for now, and then if I hear any news on double maps Ill PM chrusion or something.

As fro combat.....It would make things strange to not have combat in the systems, as that is where the battles feel like they should take place, but you know what is the most efficent way of doing things....I just don't want to leave planets but Systems sound much more attrative . But I can always alter stuff for a seqeul like FFH I suppose. Original plan for now while I wait for modding technology to get better.

thanks for the offer as well

 

[The Great Apple]

As fro combat.....It would make things strange to not have combat in the systems, as that is where the battles feel like they should take place, but you know what is the most efficent way of doing things....I just don't want to leave planets but Systems sound much more attrative .

There is no reason why you should lose any work you've already done is there? I mean - the planets graphics and stuff you have at the moment would just be encased within the submap, rather than in the global map.

As for system combat - another reason I'm against it (apart from the AI) is because it seems to detract from the stratagy part of the game. I've never really like games with two combat layers like this (MTW, for example), as winning the small scale combat always becomes dull and repetative. Always.

But I can always alter stuff for a seqeul like FFH I suppose. Original plan for now while I wait for modding technology to get better.

thanks for the offer as well

True - it wouldn't be to hard to make something which could be converted to use sub-maps at a later stage.

 

[dalek master]

as winning the small scale combat always becomes dull and repetative. Always.

Maybe there is a better way to have combat

* dreams *

I want combat in, and maybe if I added enough different ways of combat, it could make it more fun and exciting. No system Combat just feels wrong though. In a real situation you might actauly get combat in the systems. Bascialy if you can't have combat I see little point of the sub-maps if you could just replace it with a much eaiser to use system. I don't know.

I think that Combat is staying, it is an essence of civ4 and this is a mod for civ4. Thanks for the advice, but unless there is a break-trough in modolegy soon the mod is staying this way for build one, if I get there.

 

[The Great Apple]

Okies - I'll stop trying to convince you. While it may not be fun for me the Total War games have gone a long way with this idea, so I'm sure other people will like it. Maybe if it's done right even I'll like it

 

[The Great Apple]

How is this going?

I'm amazed you haven't had more replies - that screenshot looks so promising.

 

[dalek master]

How is this going?

I'm amazed you haven't had more replies - that screenshot looks so promising.

Its ok. Im trying to ponder what techs should be first as I scroll and delete most of the XML files.
I was hoping for a better reception too.. ah well

 

[Tholish]

You're doing a space mod? Neat! But isn't that a lot of work? Have you no idea how DULL it is editing XML files? Sure, its fun downloading mod components and dreaming things up but then its nose to the grindstone. Then, once you get it working, civilopedia. But then, at last, you get to playtest it. Play with a notepad and take notes as you go. "Increase combat value of StarCruiser" "Space Marines button a blue square" etc...
I want you to think seriously before you embark on such a thing, even if you plan to do a sloppy job.

But seriously, I am happy you are doing this, I will gladly loot your mod for components. Please post them as they are completed, in installments.

Ah, what else. The objections to submaps are misapplied. Submaps in this context are simply analogous to continents, not "battlefields." They are simply a way of doing continents that fits with the space environment. Planets don't have an edge and an interior.

I believe there may be a poor man's way to do submaps. I saw something somewhere in a python file, an event about relocating a unit's x and y. Used properly something like that could be a local wrap, so you could have marginal submaps, though culture spreading wouldn't work right.

And will the AI use it? Will it calculate routes based on it? Of course not.

In space itself, everything should be chopable features: asteroids, comets, planets, and even stars.

Also, where you go interstellar there won't even be realtime communications. Tech trees and economies will have to be separate, unless your turn lengths are large or you have warp drive. The civ model of corruption with distance applies here as it does to ancient times on smaller scales.

I think you could get a good game by using features as planets stars etc, playing on a small islands archipelago. If you could redo features. Good luck.

Another idea is to keep it really simple by having land terrains look like space, use smart map for all land terrains. Asteroids and comets are forest and jungle. Planets of different kinds are resources where you can place different kinds of improvements, aka the plantation, pasture, et al representing say Ice Harvesting, Terrestrial Planet Colonization, Marginal Planet Terraforming (farm), Mining, etc... Other resources are stars of various kinds, including brown dwarfs, black holes. Cities must be placed "on" stars, representing system governments.

What techs are strongly influenced by whether you go interstellar or interplanetary.

 

[dalek master]

OK Tholish......have you given up when you failed to do your own speac mod? I have already thought a lot out.

• Firstly, I know that this mod will be using the game elemnents in a totaly different way planned. It will work fine, but the interface will have to change. thus python.
  
• Im not just putting graphics in you know, those planets are actualy the foundations! I will be ready to demo test it soon!
  
• Space is already land. I may change it to water, it just depends what looks nicer and which will run better. I can't see it interfiring which type I have it as of yet.
  
• Black holes will be in I assure you
  
• The first version IS going to be multi-map free
  
• Do you realy think I will be doing the balancing all myself? Not if I can get others to beta test I won't....although nobody is intrested right now
  
• Planets are alerady resources. This will work fine with my system. This way they are easy to add, and each planet can be easily given its own identiy and effects. Terraforming is a building requring certain planets for instance.
  
• Yes XML can be a bit boring. But I have found Modding extremly rewarding so far.

thank you for reading. I hope you enjoy pictures I hope to upload IF i get further with this....which I am sure I will get a bit further...

 

[The Great Apple]

But seriously, I am happy you are doing this, I will gladly loot your mod for components. Please post them as they are completed, in installments.

Are you going to do this too so he can loot your mod for components? Seems like a good idea to me.

Used properly something like that could be a local wrap, so you could have marginal submaps, though culture spreading wouldn't work right.

You can make the culture work very easily with one or two SDK tweaks. Definately not a stalling point.

And will the AI use it? Will it calculate routes based on it? Of course not.

Depends how it is implemented. The AI can also be taught.

Also, where you go interstellar there won't even be realtime communications. Tech trees and economies will have to be separate, unless your turn lengths are large or you have warp drive. The civ model of corruption with distance applies here as it does to ancient times on smaller scales.

It's sci-fi. Very easy to explain away by faster than light communications devices.

In general, Tholish, I would say that you are grossly underestimating the power we have to mod Civ 4. All of the modding objections you raised can be fixed, some without much hassle.

 

[Killamike718]

AAAHHH THAT LOOKS AMAZING!!! The screenshot looks very promising, You gotta tell us how you did it! Anyway wish you the best of luck. If we can only have a world map for each planet, then well truly get a conquering feeling, conquering every planet and every planet haveing their own world map. That would help lots of mods, including the starcraft mod and starwars mod and any space mod out there. Kudos for you and good luck.

 

[Tholish]

Other than just stitching components together and adding stuff peculiar to my mod and deleting things I shouldn't, so far I've done a Nano cloud unit. It's the fog effect using the bear animation and shadow. If that would be useful. Oh, and FormationInfos.xml: I've got one of those ProperlyIndentedInsteadOfJustOneLongLongLine so I can edit it with Word Pad. If that's useful.

Also the Forestry mod and Icebreaker mod and Retreat mod and Revolution mod are excellent components people have done, which should just be included in the disc for civ itself, along with a bunch of scifi and fantasy units. And in the Units thread there are a bunch of star wars spaceship units and they work, or at least they work as a default spaceship that moves around, which is good enough for me, though not ideal. No laser beams or missiles or rocket exhaust. They are small, so I made them two or three times larger.

 

[dalek master]

Other than just stitching components together and adding stuff peculiar to my mod and deleting things I shouldn't, so far I've done a Nano cloud unit. It's the fog effect using the bear animation and shadow. If that would be useful. Oh, and FormationInfos.xml: I've got one of those ProperlyIndentedInsteadOfJustOneLongLongLine so I can edit it with Word Pad. If that's useful.

Also the Forestry mod and Icebreaker mod and Retreat mod and Revolution mod are excellent components people have done, which should just be included in the disc for civ itself, along with a bunch of scifi and fantasy units. And in the Units thread there are a bunch of star wars spaceship units and they work, or at least they work as a default spaceship that moves around, which is good enough for me, though not ideal. No laser beams or missiles or rocket exhaust. They are small, so I made them two or three times larger.

um... Im guessing you want to help? Don't get excited rember . Nano Could sounds fun.

Anyways, Ive updated the first post :crazyeyes:. Dont think me an idiot everyone. Give me constructive cricism

 

[Tholish]

I posted saying I would be looting your mod for components, and it was suggested that the relationship should be reciprocal. Just sharing what I've got so far. I'll post the nano cloud here in about twelve hours.

Here it is attached. The XML must be cut and pasted into the appropriate files and the folder Nano placed properly. As you can see, no civilopedia, no buttons, no text.

 

[dalek master]

I posted saying I would be looting your mod for components, and it was suggested that the relationship should be reciprocal. Just sharing what I've got so far. I'll post the nano cloud here in about twelve hours.

don't worry, just for you I will try my hardest to un-open source this . Ok, if you loot my components just remember to tell people that my mod was part of the foundations for your work in some kind of credits.