Unwritten Rule?

[Bloodstone]

OK, just started a new game, PIG Mod, playing 18 Civ. Just moved up to the Prince level as my last Warlords game was a challenge but it's time to move up. I play mostly single player games off line.

Wondering if I'm missing something with my start. Is it an "unwritten rule" that your first city should be founded wherever you get placed? I'm just curious, because I have found on many occasions that the AI cities listed in the Top 5 always seem to have a 4000BC start date. I don't mess around to long, but I usually take one or two turns to scope things out and try to get optimal placement for that first City. I mainly ask since at some point I'm going to try some online or LAN games and don't want to be pulling rookie mistakes.
Thanks
Tom

 

[(Pro)Peanut_P]

No there is no rule too SIP (Settle in Place), and quite often you can get a better cap by moving settler.
If you do start playing online, you will find the games are very different, as are the strategies you will learn.Games online are almost always Quick speed, no barbs, no tech trading and You will hardly ever see modern/future era's.

 

[raxid]

The reason that the top 5 cities are often populated by 4000BC starts is simply because this list is based on most culture, which is usually best accrued through a capitol. This means it benefits from a strong positioning, being around a long time, and bureaucracy, all helping greatly in building wonders and infrastructure etc.

edit: meant based mostly on culture... but i'll leave that error above to remind myself i'm not perfect... yet.

 

[Dhoomstriker]

It IS an unwritten behaviour of the AIs, though, to always settle their capitals in-place.

 

[RJM]

My understanding is that the game mechanics ensure that there are resources within the BFC of the starting position, so settling in place will ensure access to these resources. In my experience there is fairly often a tile one move away that better suits my play style - for example because it is coastal. If you can move and settle on the same turn, there is no loss. If you delay settling, you sacrifice at least 9 and 1 per turn. The site you choose must be able to make up for this loss reasonably quickly. If you can see an obviously better site, fine, but I wouldn't spend time exploring in the hope that a better site turns up.

 

[Liquidated]

For the most part, the game tries to improve the BFC a Civ starts in... like 2+ food tiles , fresh water, at least 3 hills to work. As such, it's normally wise to start where the settler sits or 1- 2 tiles tiles off it in order to keep most of the capital bonuses intact.

There are a number of issues with starting positions that cause people to move or settle in place.

The game sadly considers plains cows and un- irrigated rice, 'food' tiles. Right. plains cows are bad, 2 of them is best to just reroll. Least rice means most of the BFC will likely be grasslands.

The starting 3xhills rule does not account if there are pigs/sheep on one of said hills, meaning there's often really only 2 mine-able tiles in the starting Bfc.. lord forbid there's two hill pigs hehe.

Flood plains are valued very lowly by the game. This means the strongest starts are ones with flood plains in the bfc, especially for a financial Civ. Too good a start just make a game that much easier btw if one is trying to improve their game.

Since the game gives each start fresh water, there's a long standing bug where the game draws a river but then stops one tile short of the start and compensates with a one tile lake. Starting adjacent to a river is far superior as it not only provides fresh water, it enhances the commerce of tiles and allows a town to run a levi and hydro plant. Most common movement from the start location is to move next to the river and get the un-improvable lake out of the start bfc=p

If you start on the coast, often there's as much water in the BFC as there land. Water tiles are junk for non financial civs and unless there mass food there in the form of fish crabs clams, it's best to move inland to limit the amount of water in the BFC or eliminate it altogether. If you get one of those 3 fishie starts btw, it almost always means you are cramped with not much room to expand by either rival Civs or limited land.

Reading a start is an art form by the way. Making educated guesses what tiles are in the fog around the settler and what hidden resources there might be where is a game unto itself.

Overall though most games settle in place or at move one move away, so one can still settle in 4000 BC. The early turns are important.


Cheers!
-Liq

 

[ManiaMuse]

At any difficulty below Deity I would generally SIP without much thought. Unless it's blatently obvious that moving would be beneficial, generally if it brings in another food resource or gold/gems.

Plains cow starts are annoying but a good civ player should be able to deal with whatever start they are given. And it's not like it's immediately game ending in any way.

So basically, at Prince I wouldn't worry about it at all. It's pretty easy to rape the AI wherever you start. Wasting 1-2 turns to consider your options and then settling in a place that is only slightly better really isn't worth it. Deity, maybe, but at Prince it really isn't an issue. You are better off playing lots of games than spending ages analysing where to settle your first city.

Unless you are playing on Settler difficulty with huts in which it makes sense to use your initial settler to scout and pop more settlers from huts...

 

[Bloodstone]

Thanks everyone, I believe my question has been answered. I had a pretty reasonable start, but found that moving one space West provided me access to a river along the coast. As it turned out that river ran inland to a section of hills loaded with gems and gold, so now I'm in a 100 yard dash with Gilgamesh to get a settler there. I did notice that site isn't majorly surrounded by jungle/grassland tiles, so I'm gonna have to get to work on Iron working to get that cleared out and make the area feasible.

Liquidated:

For the most part, the game tries to improve the BFC a Civ starts in... like 2+ food tiles , fresh water, at least 3 hills to work. As such, it's normally wise to start where the settler sits or 1- 2 tiles tiles off it in order to keep most of the capital bonuses intact.

Didn't realize that. Beauty of this game, always something new to learn. Since I'm playing more often now I'll be sure and watch my starts and probably to SIP more often. This was kind of what I was trying to figure out.

 

[6K Man]

I suppose there is math that can be performed. Your capital will give you 2F1H9C per turn, plus whatever tile output the citizen can work. Each turn of delay in founding, costs you that much output.

If I can move to a 2H tile and not give up anything, I'll usually do it. Ditto if I'm one tile off the coast or 1 tile off a river.

 

[kossin]

The reason that the top 5 cities are often populated by 4000BC starts is simply because this list is based on most culture, which is usually best accrued through a capitol. This means it benefits from a strong positioning, being around a long time, and bureaucracy, all helping greatly in building wonders and infrastructure etc.

Not quite exact, top 5 cities is a function of commerce, hammers, food, culture and size.

(Culture/5 +food+prod+commerce)*pop if my memory serves correctly.

 

[raxid]

eh, ya kossin i meant to say based mostly on cutlure, not based on most culture. oh english and your reorganizing of words producing wildly different meanings!

 

[coanda]

Common reasons for moving: near-coastal starts; one-city challenge starts; starts near a plains/hill or an ivory (for the extra 1H right off the bat); starts where there's gems, gold, or a food resource you can add to your BFC by moving 1-2 spaces; hubris.

OCC starts in particular are somewhat unique, in that you want to be completely satisfied with your capital; it's perfectly reasonable to spend 5-10 turns looking around before settling if you don't like what you got.

 

[kossin]

eh, ya kossin i meant to say based mostly on cutlure, not based on most culture. oh english and your reorganizing of words producing wildly different meanings!

I mix up English a lot as well, making sentences that have no sense at all!

 

[mariogreymist]