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upgrade vs build

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by wolfblue, Dec 28, 2010.

  1. wolfblue

    wolfblue Warlord

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    Just wondering what the common wisdom is on keeping your forces modern?

    generally speaking I dont upgrade except for generals and extreamly xperianced troups (15+)

    I rather use them as fodder, or just disband them and build new troops.

    the primary exeptions to this rule are warriors/archers that are in 'safe' cities to avoid anger (i simply dont upgrade them or save them to feed a general to) and if i am playing Ethiopia i tend to go theocracy/vassalage and pump out massive armies of Orromo warriors that i intend to upgrade through the rest of the game. (drill 4 mech infantry is just sic)

    thats how I play but i am sure some one has managed to create some kind of chart explaining which method is most efficient.
    :lol:
     
  2. ywhtptgtfo

    ywhtptgtfo Emperor

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    It depends on how much cash I have. I generally upgrade troops left over from previous wars when necessary. Though upgrading expensive, it shaves hammers off from having to build an army from scratch again.

    I very rarely upgrade siege though, unless I have money to waste.
     
  3. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    I usually upgrade my crack force with good promos like CRII or III. Upgrading CR mace to Rifles is a sweet deal. In fact, I've been known to build quite a few mace right before Rifles to upgrade to CRII Rifles - or CRIII if I've settled enough GGs. But yeah, in general, if you've setup your unit pumps right it really cheaper to build new more modern units than upgrade a bunch of inexperienced outdated units.

    ^^^as for seige, if I have been lucky to have some CRII+ siege lying around when Steel comes in, you better believe I'll be upgrading those suckers.
     
  4. theskibum

    theskibum Brewer of Oatmeal Stout

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    I typically only upgrade units with 2 or more promotions. I use that rule because unless you are AGG, a city with a barracks can only pump out 1 promo units unless special conditions exist (settled GG, Theocracy or Vassalage, West Point).

    The special conditions do not run all game long, so any units I have with 2+ promos are harder to get to than 0-1 promo units. I would rather pay some gold to upgrade my CR3 maces to rifles for instance, than build a whole bunch of rifles with only 1-2 promos. A couple turns of 0% slider or a Great Merchant take care of this easily.

    Some exceptions to my rule exist, if playing AGG or PRO leaders, then its 3 promos instead of 2 (I count CG1 and D1 as 1 promo for PRO leaders).

    I rarely upgrade troops with a GG attached because the only time I attach a GG instead of settling is to make a super medic or two. I like to leave the as axemen or even warriors so that they will never get picked to defend unless my stack is anihilated.
     
  5. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    Good point you make that I meant to mention when I saw wolf mention only upgrading generals.

    Wolf, sounds like you create super attack units or stacks by attaching generals. IMO and many others, the best use for the first GG is to create a super medic out of a chariot or woody II/III warrior. Then keep that medic outdated so that he doesn't stack defend. That first GG medic will unlock HE as well, if you haven't already.

    Subsequent GG's are best settled in your unit pump(s) cities. This pays off the most in the long run since all your units will have extra XP Also, note that settled GGs get an extra 3 bpts in Representation, which is nice too. Later if you get Military Science you might create a Military Academy in a secondary unit pump like a Naval base, but I don't often do that.
     
  6. wolfblue

    wolfblue Warlord

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    personally with generalls i will create 2 or 3 super medics for stack heallers.

    I do upgrade them but they are always defenders and rarely upgrade their strenght. so archers, crossbows, machine guns. with super medic and first strike.

    after that all my generals go to building military academy for faster troops. I never ever ever use them for the super specilist but love when the AI does since super specialists dont get killed when i take a city. (note. I once had a city with 3 general super specialists. I loved that city. I put a military accademy and the heroic epic there and was pumping out 10xp tanks every turn.
     
  7. theskibum

    theskibum Brewer of Oatmeal Stout

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    In my current game Hannibal was nice enough to settle 5, yes 5 GG's in Carthage for me and build a military academy there thanks in part to his multiple wars with Monty all game. I had to take Hannibal out since he was getting too advanced and clearly teching for space. Air superiority is the shiz-nit

    Edit: Oh yeah, and I have a barracks there, plus I built the pentagon...add up that XP
     
  8. Ataxerxes

    Ataxerxes Deity

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    Slightly OT, but I prefer using an Explorer as my Supermedic. Starts with Woody1 and I can't mess up and accidentally upgrade him. What's the downside to an Explorer Supermedic?
     
  9. snepp

    snepp King

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    I find that putting a military academy in the same city as the HE tends to be a waste, it's capable of crapping out a unit every turn anyway.

    I might build an academy in a secondary military city if I have a specific task in mind (red cross city, water units on islands map, whatever).
     
  10. theskibum

    theskibum Brewer of Oatmeal Stout

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    Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't believe Explorers and Scouts can get Woodsman III, which is a good promo for a supermedic.
     
  11. oldskald

    oldskald Warlord

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    One further thing to consider in the upgrade vs build debate is time. It is a situational problem, but you should consider whether the time you save by upgrading balances the cost of doing so. There are no right answers, but from my own experience I find I only upgrade a) those units I intend to use against an enemy in an offensive war, and b) those I think I may need against an awkward neighbour. Otherwise I'm more than happy to have Warriors defending my capital.
     
  12. theskibum

    theskibum Brewer of Oatmeal Stout

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    good points
     
  13. The7Sins

    The7Sins Hungry Burger

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    I upgrade nothing. I love Warrior vs Tank battles.

    Though I of course have enough modern units to prevent myself getting conquered usually.
     
  14. wolfblue

    wolfblue Warlord

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    definitely situational. but on these boards people tend to have a few absolute ideas that i consider situational ... just wondering what the pwnz0r l33t opinion was on the subject.
     
  15. Skallagrimson

    Skallagrimson Deity

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    City raid, upgrade upgrade.

    City D, rebuild me.
     
  16. kensington888

    kensington888 Warlord

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    if you have a tec lead you can drop your science slider to 0% and use the money to upgrade.i have done this with elizabeth and upgraded alot of units to redcoats while letting other civs catch up on my tec lead.
     
  17. Ataxerxes

    Ataxerxes Deity

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    Usually build over upgrade. One exception for me is your Avatar. I'm greedy, I hate to lose 2 free promos so I usually save some coin and research Gunpowder early. Free Promos are actually better than battlefield promos because additional promos are cheaper. 5 XP's to Drill IV? Yes, please.

    Another is Spain when I get cannons. I've got like 10 XP's on all Siege.
     
  18. sav

    sav Prince

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    I upgrade as much as possible, as quickly as possible - even forgoing research up to four or five turns to pay for it, usually around the industrial era. Why? Because I usually keep a pretty slimmed-down force, and only bulk up if I have to. Helps to keep it modern.
     

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