US accuses Iran over Iraqi Shias

Neomega

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from:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5108496.stm

"Speaking alongside Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld at the Pentagon, Gen Casey said intelligence on Iranian activities now confirmed previously-held suspicions."


remember this thread?
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=174403
from this story:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060615/wl_mideast_afp/iraq_060615160910

"Citing one of the documents, Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki's office disclosed that Zarqawi aimed to try to widen the rift between the United States and
Iran with kidnappings and assassinations involving US interests falsely attributed to Iran.

In what the government dubbed Zarqawi's "plan of death and destruction", he voiced doubt whether "America is truly an enemy of Iran because of the large support that Iran provided America in its wars against
Afghanistan and Iraq".



So we find a "treasure trove" of intelligence after Zarqawi... is it possible some of this intelligence was planted by Al-Queada?


Why do I get the queezy feeling, our guys are playing a deadly game of chess with Al-Queada, and playing right into their hands, with a politically nepotisitic and impotent yes man operation at the CIA?
 
A foreign nation interfering in Iraq's domestic affairs? Egad.

I am guessing Bush and his cohorts don't have a well developed sense of irony.

I'm not a fan of the regime in Tehran but this had to be expected, only an idiot would think they wouldn't try to get every advantage they could. Iraq is their neighbor, they have major interests there. We have been doing the same thing to Latin America for the last 150 years or so...

The conflict would be there between the US and Iran regardless of what Al-Quaeda was doing to stir things up. The US and and Iran have fundamentally different interests and goals in the region. Iran was just helping the US because it thought it could use one enemy (the US) to destroy other enemies (Saddam and the Taliban) and then step into the power vaccum after the US left.
 
The US's campaign to try and find any reason whatsoever to bias the world against Iran is a failure in my eyes and has been for some time, people just aren't buying it and with attempts like this backfiring they aren't likely to either.
 
The US's campaign to try and find any reason whatsoever to bias the world against Iran is a failure in my eyes and has been for some time, people just aren't buying it and with attempts like this backfiring they aren't likely to either.

It's say it's hardly the US's effort, and the Iranians are doing a fine job on there own of stirring the pot. I know though, it's the the US fault. Never fails. Yawn.
 
Neomega said:
So we find a "treasure trove" of intelligence after Zarqawi... is it possible some of this intelligence was planted by Al-Queada?
Possible, but highly unlikely. They lost their top guy and several of his cohorts; this was a serious blow to Al Qaeda. I find it hard to believe that they would sacrifice themselves like that just to plan some information, when they had no way of knowing whether it would actually affect anything.

Why not "accidentally" drop in it in the street? Or let a junior member carry the information in a note-book, then have the bomb "break" right before he blows himself up? There are a million different ways of spreading disinformation, and having it be found with your leader, as he get's killed, is probably the worst. That's not to say it isn't possible, and we should consider that option - but it's not a likely scenario, in my opinion.
 
Elrohir said:
Possible, but highly unlikely. They lost their top guy and several of his cohorts; this was a serious blow to Al Qaeda. I find it hard to believe that they would sacrifice themselves like that just to plan some information, when they had no way of knowing whether it would actually affect anything.


I think it is incredibly dangerous to ever underestimate Al-queada, or the sacrifices they are willing to make to bring America down. Case in point, 9-11.

Zarqawis leadership was already in question, if you remember the stories a couple of weeks back.

Part of the plan was to incite war with Iran. Zarqawi dies, pace says he now has evidence Iran is helping the Iraqi shiites arm and giving them IED training and assistance.
 
Bronx Warlord said:
It's say it's hardly the US's effort, and the Iranians are doing a fine job on there own of stirring the pot. I know though, it's the the US fault. Never fails. Yawn.

You don't agree that lately the United States has been trying to create this West vs. East atmoshphere?
 
Neomega said:
Why do I get the queezy feeling, our guys are playing a deadly game of chess with Al-Queada, and playing right into their hands, with a politically nepotisitic and impotent yes man operation at the CIA?

Because you know that Al-Qeada is in a win-win position, hence there bringing America into what's reall a set of regional issues. Osama wants to re-establish the caliphate, he knows either we will fail in the area (likely considering support) and thereby further diminish the US's ability to react, and in either case he's ploarized the area to the point where literally most muslims don't even believe muslims partook in 9/11.

Either way short term we loose and they knew that, the only this backfires (imo) is if we stay in the area for a long time and consistently counter whats bound to be a generational battle.
 
Alpine Trooper said:
You don't agree that lately the United States has been trying to create this West vs. East atmoshphere?

I think the Iranians have been doing that pretty well themselves when the Iranian head of state has been calling for the destruction of another nation and denying the Holocaust ever happened.
 
Alpine Trooper said:
You don't agree that lately the United States has been trying to create this West vs. East atmoshphere?

I thought we were getting along ok with China?
 
usarmy18 said:
I think the Iranians have been doing that pretty well themselves when the Iranian head of state has been calling for the destruction of another nation and denying the Holocaust ever happened.

It's like a game of poker the US has marked the cards so the Iranians are trying to bluff with a deck that's ill suited to the purpose, on the other side of the table the US knows all the facts and has no need to bluff, but it does so anyway just to keep the Iranians interested in the game, that way it can't see the cheating that's going on.:)
 
Sidhe said:
It's like a game of poker the US has marked the cards so the Iranians are trying to bluff with a deck that's ill suited to the purpose, on the other side of the table the US knows all the facts and has no need to bluff, but it does so anyway just to keep the Iranians interested in the game, that way it can't see the cheating that's going on.:)

From what I remember, we at first wanted little to do with the European negotians with the Iranians then Mr. Psycho (whatever the hell his real name is) started calling for Israel's destruction and denying the Holocaust. That's about the time we started getting really involved. If I'm wrong, show me.
 
usarmy18 said:
From what I remember, we at first wanted little to do with the European negotians with the Iranians then Mr. Psycho (whatever the hell his real name is) started calling for Israel's destruction and denying the Holocaust. That's about the time we started getting really involved. If I'm wrong, show me.

he called for regime change in Israel, and said the numbers killed in the holocaust was inflated.

His name is Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. ah mah DEEN i jad

the j is soft.
 
Neomega said:
he called for regime change in Israel, and said the numbers killed in the holocaust was inflated.

His name is Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. ah mah DEEN i jad

the j is soft.

Really? I remember the quote as "wiped off the face of the map" regarding Israel and reading quotes in news stories that the holocaust wasn't real.
 
usarmy18 said:
From what I remember, we at first wanted little to do with the European negotians with the Iranians then Mr. Psycho (whatever the hell his real name is) started calling for Israel's destruction and denying the Holocaust. That's about the time we started getting really involved. If I'm wrong, show me.

The US gave Iran it's facilities to make fissionable material for nuclear power a long time ago, chew on the reasons why, Iran is now proudly claiming it can't make enough fissionable material to use for nuclear power? so it's allowed to:The US steps in and now it isnt, it waits for the perfect moment and then get's involved and claims with no evidence after it's declaration, that it's now making nukes?

Look at what happened 30 years ago, it's trying to settle old scores, the US is playing poker with marked cards, setting up Iran for a fall it can't quite persuade anyone to believe in because it's the instigator to the whole affair.

EDIT: Iran has 3% fissable material atm enough for nuclear power, it needs 90% fissable material for nukes, it has neither the will the facilities nor the huge cash injection it would take to make the uranium usable for nukes. It has stated that nuclear weapons are not Islamic before, but the prodding by the US is making it claim all sorts of outrageous nonsense. Playing into their hands because they can see the cards it's holding and are rasing the ante.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=169827&highlight=playground+politics

Check this thread. I really wish I could show the whole New Scientist article but it would be an infringement of copyright.
 
Bronx Warlord said:
It's say it's hardly the US's effort, and the Iranians are doing a fine job on there own of stirring the pot. I know though, it's the the US fault. Never fails. Yawn.

Seriously you didnt expect this ?
Once saddam fell there was a power vacume and Iran simply oppotunisticy stepped into take advantage of it.

Anyway it good to have you back from Iraq. (You are back right?)
 
Neomega said:
I think it is incredibly dangerous to ever underestimate Al-queada, or the sacrifices they are willing to make to bring America down. Case in point, 9-11.

Zarqawis leadership was already in question, if you remember the stories a couple of weeks back.

Part of the plan was to incite war with Iran. Zarqawi dies, pace says he now has evidence Iran is helping the Iraqi shiites arm and giving them IED training and assistance.
The September 11th attacks, however, were carried out by relatively low-level terrorists. Osama ben Laden didn't fly one of the planes in, he was too important. (Or at least thought he was; arrogant jerks are the same no matter what religion or nationality) If they really let Zarqawi die, just to plant this single message, then they have considerably less imagination than I previously thought. There are so many other ways of feeding such information to the American intelligence community, without causing loss.
 
Elrohir said:
The September 11th attacks, however, were carried out by relatively low-level terrorists. Osama ben Laden didn't fly one of the planes in, he was too important. (Or at least thought he was; arrogant jerks are the same no matter what religion or nationality) If they really let Zarqawi die, just to plant this single message, then they have considerably less imagination than I previously thought. There are so many other ways of feeding such information to the American intelligence community, without causing loss.

You then underestimate American intelligence. They aren't going to fall for just some memo dropped on the ground. Zarqawi could have made himself a martyr for his cause. He had a good run, but he also had the embarrassing video and the leadership dispute. Indeed, by the time Zaqawi was killed, I don't think he was nearly as important as he was a year earlier.
 
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