US Capitol Breached

[Berzerker]

Freedom=/=chaos.
What you are saying is that we need ZERO rules and let people do/say whatever hell they want. EVEN IF SAID PERSON IS ENCOURAGING A RIOT. Freedom comes with responsiblity. If you can't be responsible you don't deserve freedom.

Freedom is the absence of coercion or constraint, rioting is both. But I've heard that argument before from right wing defenders of the drug war, we dont have the freedom to use pot because freedom comes with responsibility. Ofc they're the people who get to decide when we no longer deserve our freedoms.

I wonder how Biden will handle right-wing riots, if they are anything close to BLM-Antifa. Do you think they should be dealt the same way, more harshly or less harshly?

Unless he executive orders mandating gun buy backs I doubt we'll see many riots. I think the teapot blew off its steam with this one. Once Joe gets settled it'll be over, politically motivated riots are best before elections.

fwiw I do not think you need any new laws ot make the point, keep it simple. refuse to seat any incoming republican who took part in the farce and then try to remove the others who took part (it will fail but will have implications long term). Thats it. Establish that encouraging this kind of activity has consequences. Do not make martyrs of morons.

Voila! Democracy restored

aye and how does letting platforms exist in which denial of reality and perpetual lying about leftists take place help? See this goes both ways and dramatically more so in the other direction. Right now you are living in a wholly fabricated world of right wing talking points perpetuated by a 24/7 self reflecting nightmare world of mirrors. I would like to see that disappear. I'm willing to sacrifice these monster corporations on that altar, but alas it will not happen. The GOP will combine with the dems to stop that.

Because the alternative is worse. The threat to leftists comes from corporate Democrats and guess who is pushing big tech to censor people. I got my information about Russiagate from the left, it was Glenn Greenwald, Aaron Mate and Jimmy Dore who clued me into what the Dems were doing. I agree both parties will stop any effort at reigning in corporate power.

I did nothing of the sort. This is just your typical whataboutism as usual.

I was there... I watched you do it, man... I doubt we'll see you quoting MLK about how riots are the voice of the unheard.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

fwiw I do not think you need any new laws ot make the point, keep it simple. refuse to seat any incoming republican who took part in the farce and then try to remove the others who took part (it will fail but will have implications long term). Thats it. Establish that encouraging this kind of activity has consequences. Do not make martyrs of morons.

No new laws are required. The 14th amendment already provides a mechanism to remove and bar traitors from serving in the federal government, Congress merely has to act.

TBH I think it's a tough case to make for most of the ~140 odd congresscritters that voted to overturn the EC count. There are some though where it is pretty straightforward like Trump, Cruz and Hawley. It comes down to what they said and when they said it.

Cruz in particular went full incitement in the past week and called for people to rise up at rallies in Georgia and elsewhere. Then of course Trump is also quite obvious guilty of insurrection. The rest are less obviously guilty - and to be honest I doubt most of them truly wanted or even expected this outcome, they just pushed it for political expediency.

Not everyone who yells fire in a theater means to cause a lethal stampede either, yet they are held accountable for it. The same is true here - actions have consequences and they must be held to account for the blood on their hands and the attempted coup they inspired and/or lead.

 

[Farm Boy]

I was going to leave this alone but...

Most of you guys are acting crazy! You have pissed off and vindictive people in your congress, it's not just the outgoing president. And are voicing your support for the to vent their anger by trampling whatever scraps of constitution and civil rights you still have remaining.

Statehood for DC: it's unconstitutional, you would simply ignore the constitution. Always nice to have another precedent for that huh?
Talking of treason: you'll have ever more draconian and arbitrary laws.

It's crazy. Your country is sunk into a load of trouble already and you think you can solve it by handing even more power to the same people who have been digging the hole? You're basically calling for an Enabling Act - persecute "traitors" and break the constitution - and enabling act for... whom? Have you stopped to think? Is there even anyone good ready to take advantage of it, in whom you trust?

You're bloody lucky that this apparently wasn't planned and nobody had legislation ready to seize the heat of the moment and ride it. Perhaps. Yet to see in the next few days. Else under cover of responding to an alleged coup you'd end up with another, and some day whatever enabling act got passed now would be used against you.

The ones that argue for more government control were never liberals anyways, just ****heads of a different color, as The Wizard of Oz goes. The ones that aren't arguing for it aren't arguing for it.

 

[Sommerswerd]

I was there... I watched you do it, man... I doubt we'll see you quoting MLK about how riots are the voice of the unheard.

This is a lie. Just more of your endless strawmanning as usual.

 

[Kyriakos]

At least under Biden there'll be no need for BLM or Antifa riots, cause everything will be fair.

 

[caketastydelish]

Spoiler NSFW :

I've said it before and will say it again, lethal force should have been used against every single one of them. It's hard to overstate just how much I hate them, but what pisses me off the most is their audacity to chant "USA USA" and wave the American flags while committing treason and a major act of terrorism against the country. At least the terrorists on 9/11 didn't pretend to be on our side.

 

[Ajidica]

The Mexicans Americans aren't sending their best

That much was obvious when we saw Fatsputin next to the Viking.

I was going to leave this alone but...

Most of you guys are acting crazy! You have pissed off and vindictive people in your congress, it's not just the outgoing president. And are voicing your support for the to vent their anger by trampling whatever scraps of constitution and civil rights you still have remaining.

Statehood for DC: it's unconstitutional, you would simply ignore the constitution. Always nice to have another precedent for that huh?

Where are you getting the idea DC statehood is unconstitutional? The constitution has a procedure for how Congress adds new states.

It's crazy. Your country is sunk into a load of trouble already and you think you can solve it by handing even more power to the same people who have been digging the hole? You're basically calling for an Enabling Act - persecute "traitors" and break the constitution - and enabling act for... whom? Have you stopped to think? Is there even anyone good ready to take advantage of it, in whom you trust?

You're bloody lucky that this apparently wasn't planned and nobody had legislation ready to seize the heat of the moment and ride it. Perhaps. Yet to see in the next few days. Else under cover of responding to an alleged coup you'd end up with another, and some day whatever enabling act got passed now would be used against you.

Where are you getting this enabling act from? The people who tried to storm congress to disrupt/prevent the certification of a lawful election -and quite likely intended physical harm- broke any number of federal crimes and quite rightly deserve to have the book thrown at them. What sort of "enabling act" is being talked about. If anything, the talk is about a dis-enabling act, taking powers away from the executive because the legislature - you know, the elected representatives of the people - believe the executive cannot be trusted.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

@caketastydelish
I used to work at a place where we used to chant USA! after every launch and they made us stop because they said it made us look bad to foreigners on livestream.

I hated that decision at the time.

I agree with it now. :-(

 

[Arwon]

Statehood for DC: it's unconstitutional, you would simply ignore the constitution. Always nice to have another precedent for that huh?

The people living in all the territories should have the right to vote for representatives like I do in my territory, pretty straightforward

 

[hobbsyoyo]

At least under Biden there'll be no need for BLM or Antifa riots, cause everything will be fair.

Why are you like this?

 

[Farm Boy]

I've said it before and will say it again, lethal force should have been used against every single of them. It's hard to overstate just how much I hate them, but what pisses me off the most is their audacity to chant "USA USA" and wave the American flags while committing treason and a major act of terrorism against the country. At least the terrorists on 9/11 didn't pretend to be on our side.

That's only because you're young enough to be this <expletive> stupid. It's a luxury that will wear off. Promise. I take no joy in that promise. Just, you know, start getting yourself ready, mentally, for actual hate and pain. It will come. This isn't it.

Moderator Action: That will be enough flaming for now. --LM

 

[Kyriakos]

The people living in all the territories should have the right to vote for representatives like I do in my territory, pretty straightforward

Wasn't DC set this way exactly so as to not be part of the state drama?
Besides, is it even a real city? Doesn't a very high percentage of state employees live there?

Why are you like this?

1 I think it is true (that errors lead to more errors and to worse outcome)
2 Distance makes it easier for me to say

 

[caketastydelish]

That's only because you're young enough to be this <expletive> stupid. It's a luxury that will wear off. Promise.

Why wouldn't they deserve it?

 

[Farm Boy]

Almost nobody does. Regardless of your hate. Or mine. Even if it's bone deep.

 

[caketastydelish]

That is subjective.

 

[Farm Boy]

May you be lucky, then.

 

[Ajidica]

Why are you like this?

Because in Greece tax fraud is a national sport, and he is angry that Trump blew them all out of the water.

 

[Kyriakos]

Because in Greece tax fraud is a national sport, and he is angry that Trump blew them all out of the water.

So just cause you don't like my posts, you post some racist stuff against an entire country. Not imbecilic at all, dear nazi

 

[Arwon]

Wasn't DC set this way exactly so as to not be part of the state drama?
Besides, is it even a real city? Doesn't a very high percentage of state employees live there?

In most federations, the capital is in a separate district, but the residents have members representing them in the federal legislature just like everyone else.

... and why do you think is it justified to disenfranchise people based on their job?

 

[Kyriakos]

... and why do you think is it justified to disenfranchise people based on their job?

It's not unlikely that people employed in the government, will vote to maintain the current government.