US Capitol Breached

[Sarin]

Sure yeah. No cop died from mob violence during the Floyd protests.

Not for the lack of trying. At least one officer was shot at and saved only be the face shield, several were hit by cars...and one died in a drive-by during protests.

Do...do you know how the US government is structured?

The other parts of government are the Executive Branch - which is...Trump...and the Judicial Branch, which has less teeth than you would think. The Judicial Branch has been completely ignored by the Executive in the past, and it hardly matters anyways since it's been packed with Right-wing justices.

The Legislative Branch is really, really important, and the one where the real power is supposed to reside in this country.

There's enough power to stop them for long enough.

Yea people that defend this attack by appealing to the inefficiency of it are really missing the point. That they're stupid doesn't mean what they did was less bad.

Same as CHAZ insurrectionists.

 

[Gorbles]

Same as CHAZ insurrectionists.

Yeah, you're definitely just in this for bad-faith comparison

 

[Seon]

Hey, you are the one claiming that we shouldn’t look towards motivation or difference in context, just the basic end result.

no cop died from mob violence in George Floyd protest in months of ongoing demonstrations while one cop died day 1 in the right wing insurrection. That seems different enough.

 

[Sarin]

Hey, you are the one claiming that we shouldn’t look towards motivation or difference in context, just the basic end result.

no cop died from mob violence in George Floyd protest in months of ongoing demonstrations while one cop died day 1 in the right wing insurrection. That seems different enough.

That's quite a strawman you have there.

Yeah, you're definitely just in this for bad-faith comparison

Comparison, yeah. Bad faith? Definitely less than people trying to prove that BLM was somehow less bloody by restricting their argument only to killed on-duty officers by mob, not including attempts that left officers in critical condition, retired officers and civilians.

 

[stinkubus]

Someone on the radio just said 90 people have been arrested so far. Earlier this morning someone mentioned that one of the guys carrying zip-ties was identified, even though he was wearing a mask in the photos taken inside the rotunda, because earlier in the day he posted photos of himself to social media, wearing the whole outfit without the mask. Supervillains, these guys are not. "Dr. Evil", maybe.

I think most of them have psyched themselves up to believe what they are doing is going to work and that Dear Leader will be issuing pardons. It's the only explanation I can think of for just how brazen they were about posting this stuff.

 

[Angst]

That's quite a strawman you have there.

When someone can't even use "strawman" at the level of Reasonableist Bear, it just shows people who not to listen to.

 

[Seon]

I mean if you are also including injured officers we have dozens of policemen and civilians in hospital right now from day 1 of right wing insurrection.

and they also planted and detonated bombs in the RNC and DNC headquarters. And brought molotovs. And guns.

 

[Sarin]

When someone can't even use "strawman" at the level of Reasonableist Bear, it just shows people who not to listen to.

You know what strawman is? Misrepresentation of one's argument, which is what this was.

But that doesn't stop this echo chamber. Does this make you feel big? Part of something? That's how it works. You're not argumenting here, just dogpiling.

 

[Archon_Wing]

But that doesn't stop this echo chamber. Does this make you feel big? Part of something? That's how it works. You're not argumenting here, just dogpiling.

Speaking of logical fallacies, what is the point of all this?

 

[Sarin]

I mean if you are also including injured officers we have dozens of policemen and civilians in hospital right now from day 1 of right wing insurrection.

and they also planted and detonated bombs in the RNC and DNC headquarters. And brought molotovs. And guns.

There were plenty of guns and incendiaries used in those protests too.

 

[Sarin]

Speaking of logical fallacies, what is the point of all this?

That maybe, just maybe, at least someone will see that this is not a debate but an echo chamber priming people the same way that right wing echo chambers did for those goons that caused this mess.

 

[El_Machinae]

Comparison, yeah. Bad faith? Definitely less than people trying to prove that BLM was somehow less bloody by restricting their argument only to killed on-duty officers by mob, not including attempts that left officers in critical condition, retired officers and civilians.

I'd not try to compare the two when it comes to violence, mainly because it's impossible. Different time-frames and each unit of violence has different salience.

Also, different end goals, different targets, and different build-up.

BUT, the same cohort that didn't mind the storming of Lafayette Square was able to get a temporary Confederate Flag into the Capitol. Meanwhile, that very same cohort has been successful in shuttling wealth upwards and into the hands of executives and out of the control of the people who created it.

Also, not for nothing, but this was all predictable once Trump started whining about "millions of illegal votes" a lifetime ago.

 

[Sarin]

I'd not try to compare the two when it comes to violence, mainly because it's impossible. Different time-frames and each unit of violence has different salience.

Also, different end goals, different targets, and different build-up.

BUT, the same cohort that didn't mind the storming of Lafayette Square was able to get a temporary Confederate Flag into the Capitol. Meanwhile, that very same cohort has been successful in shuttling wealth upwards and into the hands of executives and out of the control of the people who created it.

Also, not for nothing, but this was all predictable once Trump started whining about "millions of illegal votes" a lifetime ago.

I wasn't the one who started comparing them. I just poked holes in that comparison.

Anyway...speaking about shuffling wealth, that's something both major parties are guilty of. What pains me is that people can't see it and blindly support one side just because they think the other one is worse.

 

[Archon_Wing]

That maybe, just maybe, at least someone will see that this is not a debate but an echo chamber priming people the same way that right wing echo chambers did for those goons that caused this mess.

I doubt that.

If you truly think you are being righteous, then punctuating yourself with that kind of defensiveness is just a sign of weakness and makes you less persuasive.

 

[Seon]

People don’t blindly support one side. But only one side is currently trying to usurp the government by inciting an unruly violent mob to take over the government. Only one side have actually incited a violent mob that lead to five deaths in a single day, all from said mob.

it’s utterly reasonable to believe that said side is the worse of the two.

You aren’t really making a point. You are just being defensive.

 

[Sarin]

I doubt that.

If you truly think you are being righteous, then punctuating yourself with that kind of defensiveness is just a sign of weakness and makes you less persuasive.

Ad hominem. You can't address my arguments, but you have to chime in because you feel threatened by my disagreement with, I dare to say dogma in this thread, and because of that you automatically see me as a threat. Typical for echo chambers.

 

[El_Machinae]

Anyway...speaking about shuffling wealth, that's something both major parties are guilty of. What pains me is that people can't see it and blindly support one side just because they think the other one is worse.

Totally agree. That said, I only see a significant counter-push to this problem in only one of the major parties. There's a corrupt "center" and there's a wing-nut leftwing to the (D), but there's a solid and significant portion of the base that would undo the economic damage if they could get any bipartisan support.

 

[Sarin]

Totally agree. That said, I only see a significant counter-push to this problem in only one of the major parties. There's a corrupt "center" and there's a wing-nut leftwing to the (D), but there's a solid and significant portion of the base that would undo the economic damage if they could get any bipartisan support.

And echo chambers like this are normalizing hostility against those who dare to disagree with the side they feel closer to, thus pushing the moderates to take sides.

 

[Archon_Wing]

Ad hominem. You can't address my arguments, but you have to chime in because you feel threatened by my disagreement with, I dare to say dogma in this thread, and because of that you automatically see me as a threat.

Actually, it's not an ad homenim because I'm not actually making an argument refuting yours. For it to be one, I would have to say that your points are invalid because of your actions I described.

I never said anything you wrote was wrong, after all. Ironically, you're dismissing my post because of certain assumptions you made about me. I don't really see you as a threat; sorry I don't care about you that much. That is an ad hominem, actually. And that's causing you to miss the main point of my post, because you are focused on my motivations and not my post.

 

[Birdjaguar]

I think we're all agreed that these guys are idiots, but idiots can do a lot of damage.

May I present Exhibit A:

Awesome picture! Thanks.