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US Congresswoman shot in Arizona

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by downtown, Jan 8, 2011.

  1. Formaldehyde

    Formaldehyde Both Fair And Balanced

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    Show me where I made a strawman of your opinion.


    In other words, you are whining about the ridiculous comments of people in other forums? It isn't very difficult to find totally inane comments about any topic. Just read the comments of a typical youtube video.

    I did "attack the substance". Obama is no more a "socialist" than you are.

    That is a terrible article! Most of the examples are really bad.

    Bill Maher? A comedian? :lol:

    Do you deny that many of the Tea Partyers are violent individuals who have made threats against numerous politicians? That the hatred, bigotry and fearmongering in this country hasn't gotten completely out of hand, largely inspired by nuts such as Bill O'Reilly, Rush Limbaugh, and Glenn Beck? Or is it your contention that all the threads in this forum about their frequent lies, deliberate distortions, and hate-filled bigoted rhetoric are based on remarks taken out of context?

    You mean the final compromise legislation due to the Republican opposition? :lol:

    So there's a few Democrats in Congress who make irresponsible remarks? How many Republicans are there who have made completely absurd statements, such as that Obama is a "socialist"? Or that the Democrats are proposing "death squads" as part of their healthcare plan?

    I was specifically referring to Congressmen and the media, not some nut who styles himself to be a "liberal".

    So what does that have to do with anything you mentioned previously?

    Granted, there are those on the "left" who have made some stupid remarks in the past. And they are just as much to blame for the current climate of fear, bigotry, and hatred as some Republicans are. But that is hardly a rationalization for organizations such as Fox News to do so on a regular basis. I also think this is a far greater problem with the far-right than it is of the "left" because it is far more widespread. It even seems to be an inherent element of the Tea Party.

    And I think the people who claim that we will have more acts such as this in the future if we don't make concerted efforts to stop it are correct in their assessment. Far too many people believe everything they see and hear on TV with which they happen to agree.
     
  2. mangxema

    mangxema I

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    I seriously doubt she'll be of much use for the rest of her term, and I kind of doubt that she'd run for reelection for the next term (which is a shame b/c it sounds like she was well-liked in her area). However, as a relative centrist she could probably be a contender for a senate seat. I kind of hope she does b/c i really don't like the idea of violent coercion in electoral system; if she is able, she should come back out of spite.
     
  3. Holycannoli

    Holycannoli Deity

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    Why am I not surprised you're one of the first to jump on the "congresswoman shot, therefore Fox News is evil" bandwagon? I bet you blame Glenn Beck for rousing this guy to violence, right?

    No, it's not enough that the shooter is crazy. There has to be a way to tie it to your preconceived opinions of Fox News.

    You like to talk about strawmen, then you pull Fox News into the discussion. Wtf. It has nothing to do with it. Beavis and Butt-Head were not responsible for kids burning their houses down (you do remember that controversy right?), and Fox News is not responsible for crazy people acting crazy.
     
  4. FriendlyFire

    FriendlyFire Codex WMDicanious

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    LMAO Did you even bother to CHECK your OWN LINK ???
    Dailykos post is linked to .... Fox news :lol:


     
  5. aimeeandbeatles

    aimeeandbeatles watermelon

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    Ugh. Seriously why's every thread have to turn into partisan hackery? Why cant we all agreee that It wasnt very nice to do?
     
  6. amadeus

    amadeus As seen on OT

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  7. Formaldehyde

    Formaldehyde Both Fair And Balanced

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    I bet you can't even be bothered to read my previous reply to you on the last page before generating yet another completely absurd strawman of my actual opinions. :lol:

    And yes, I think it is quite conceivable that this idiot was also influenced by the hatemongers and bigots on Fox News and elsewhere. And I'm certainly not the only person to think so. I suggest you read this thread for further details.

     
  8. FriendlyFire

    FriendlyFire Codex WMDicanious

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  9. eyrei

    eyrei Deity Retired Moderator

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    And a lot of other people who have made comments in speeches that suggest we take up arms against our representatives over things like health care reform could potentially be charged as well. Not that any would be convicted but simply prosecuting them may be enough to get the rhetoric toned down.
     
  10. Camikaze

    Camikaze Administrator Administrator

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    I don't think pointing out that some of the rhetoric used in politics of late is irresponsible is uncalled for, especially when we're talking about an 'impressionable' man, as you describe him. The point isn't that there are politicians out for blood, but that they aren't thinking before they speak. That it is an accepted possibility that (for example) Palin's gunsights poster was a motivator for this impressionable individual should indicate just how grossly irresponsible that it is.

    I'm not sure that that would achieve anything positive. There is no desire to promote violence by those that engage in such rhetoric. It's inadvertent and irresponsible. Charging them would seem too political, and could possibly even worsen the situation.
     
  11. JollyRoger

    JollyRoger Slippin' Jimmy Supporter

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    Maybe the guy's Goldline purchases went south. His currency ramblings seem possibly inspired by the same coming from Beck.
     
  12. eyrei

    eyrei Deity Retired Moderator

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    Maybe the fact that this finally happened will be enough to convince people like Palin and Beck to tone down their rhetoric, but since most of them live in their own realities I kind of doubt it. It will take something more egocentric...like the cops showing up at the door...to get their attention.
     
  13. metatron

    metatron unperson

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    There is a significant difference:
    There allways was a pretty overwhelming consensus that burning down your house is a bad idea and not right (at the very least if you are a kid). Beavis and Butthead were the only dissenters from what most kids will probably still have percieved as a pretty strong demand from society, not to burn their house down.
    The consensus that it's not right to solve political dispute with gunfire has suffered some significant erosion recently and is far from unanimous.
    I don't want to blame that on the "right" exclusively. Allthough i have to admit that Angle is the first example that comes to my mind. I also have to admit that i am under the impression that of the congressmen who had their offices vandalized and suffered from a level of death threats that increased several 100% in quantity (from the "normal" one nut calling every other year) over the course of the last year most if not all were Democrats, most if not all of which were in favor of health care reform.
    Does she call for armed violence as political means in that or is she merely fearmongering with fairy tales?
    A plain loss of popularity would suffice.
    (That's very different from an increase in unpopularity.)


    Btw: Is there any new information on the possibility that the judge was the target?
     
  14. Camikaze

    Camikaze Administrator Administrator

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    I do think there will be increased pressure on them to tone down their message, and that pressure will probably have an effect. More so on Palin (she has her political ambitions to consider, and wouldn't want to damage them further) than Beck. I'm unsure that attempting to arrest them on dubious grounds would result in their respective stars waning (it would just give them more publicity, and justify for some their extreme rhetoric). I guess investigating their actions in the course of the investigation into this shooting would not be uncalled for, but I reckon the best pressure that could be applied is that from a public backlash.

    Well, the BBC says the following:
    That would seem a fair indication that Giffords was the target.
     
  15. metatron

    metatron unperson

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    Ah. Sorry, i knew that.
    I read somewhere that he might have hit the judge first and that made me ignore that for a second. :blush:
     
  16. MobBoss

    MobBoss Off-Topic Overlord

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    So Camikaze, this guy kills 6 people, including a child and a federal judge, in premeditated fashion. No death penalty?
     
  17. tycoonist

    tycoonist Deity

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    Just jail him for life. What's the difference?
     
  18. Camikaze

    Camikaze Administrator Administrator

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    Of course not. What makes you think I'd make an exception for this case?
     
  19. JollyRoger

    JollyRoger Slippin' Jimmy Supporter

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    If he is mentallty ill as some here have claimed, death penalty?

    Should he be more likely to get the death penalty because one of his victims was a Federal Judge? Would your opinion change if it was found he did not know the man was a federal judge?

    Would you support the death penalty if all of his victims were private sector employees and none were children? If so, why bring up the status of two victims to make your death penalty case? Is that an acknowledgement that the type of victim may matter in enhancing punishment or elevating the chance at the death penalty?
     
  20. MobBoss

    MobBoss Off-Topic Overlord

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    He could still kill other inmates in prison or other people if he managed to escape (which does occur on occasion). He cant if he is dead.

    Assuming he is competent. If he is insane, then no.

    You dont think killing 6 people in a rampage heious enough on its own?
     

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