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US Congresswoman shot in Arizona

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by downtown, Jan 8, 2011.

  1. Hehehe

    Hehehe Emperor

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    This congresswoman, wasn't she a gun rights advocate?

    @Disgustipated: I hope you're trolling but in case you're not, I'm pretty sure schizophrenia is equally common in all ethnic groups.
     
  2. metatron

    metatron unperson

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    But you get to make that claim and be upset about other people making other claims in the same post? :huh:

    You don't have any more evidence to support your claim than those who you condemn for pointing fingers. You are as guilty as they are for ending discussion prematurely and in the absence of evidence (and probably as much as the result of a feeling of political capital being at stake).
     
  3. Bill3000

    Bill3000 OOOH NOOOOOOO! Supporter

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    A quick search shows that it's not and African Americans are three times more likely to be diagnosed with it.
     
  4. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    That really depends upon the nature of the illness. I've seen people with delusions regarding the nature of authority (e.g., they thought they answered only to God) who were incredibly intransigent regarding talking to any type of 'authority figure' (or one of their putative agents).
     
  5. Holycannoli

    Holycannoli Deity

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    Are you saying there's no evidence this guy is a lunatic? That's my claim. I already got an infraction for "trolling" on this liberal forum so I won't demean you guys further but I will state boldly that the shooter is a lunatic!.

    What the heck is with you people that you can't see that? Did you not read his youtube ramblings or hear the interviews with his teacher and now friends? The guy is nuts. Doesn't matter what motivation may have triggered his insanity; a sane person just does not do that.
     
  6. JerichoHill

    JerichoHill Bedrock of Knowledge

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    @metatron

    This forum isn't liberal. It's a computer generated website. There may be more liberal posters than conservative posters on this forum, but that is no reason to knock CFC in the first place. Much more to CFC than OT.

    (says a moderate poster)
     
  7. BSmith1068

    BSmith1068 Deity Retired Moderator

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    No one is saying he is not. But that is not the point of their opinion. Their point is that the actions and rhetoric of politicians of the past few years may well have contributed to his actions.

    The bolded statement definitely does matter.
     
  8. metatron

    metatron unperson

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    Your argument seems to be addressed at Holycannoli, not me. :huh:

    I'm saying that you have no evidence that he's a lunatic. Much less do you have evidence that comments like Ms Angle's did not incite his actions.

    By that i am neither claiming that he is not a lunatic, nor that Ms Angle's comments did incite his actions.
    I'm merely saying that you have no foundation for a) claiming the opposite and b) rejecting other peoples equalliy unfunded claims as reprehensible and moralliy inferior in the very same post.
    All we know for sure about this guy by now is:
    • He has some contradictory, inconsistent yet largely anti-statist ideology.
    • He has some sort of problem with his English language skills.
    • He has invoced his 5th ammendment rights and did not offer any relevant testimony so far.
    That doesn't sound all that "nuts" to me. If he hadn't shot some 20 people you would probably consider him to be politically confused and unskilled in several respects but not nuts either.
    He may very well turn out to be mentally sick. He may also turn out to have a disctinct anti-statist agenda, which would most likely be somewhat rightish.
    My point, yet again, is that you have no justification to claim the former (without evidence) and at the same time deride people who merely speculate about the latter as morally inferior.

    We could debate that somewhat closer to the point if you were so kind to answer the questions i asked 10 or 11 pages ago:
    • What does make someone who commits acts of violence with obvious political ramifications (say shoot at congresmen) a "nut"?
    • When is such a person a "nut"? And when is such a person not a "nut"?

      (Those two are the most important ones. If you don't answer those please don't bother answering the others.)

    • Was McVeigh a nut?
    • Was that guy who shot people out of his van in DC a few years ago a nut?
    • Were the 9/11 attackers nuts?
    • If someone who commits a political crime like that is a nut, does that free people who have inspired him/her from moral or legal responsibility?
    • How do you see the resposibility of ispirators and ideological leaders specifically in the cases i mentioned (McVeigh, 9/11)?
     
  9. Silurian

    Silurian Deity

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    When I was at school (a long time ago) people used to pin notes on peoples back saying "hit me".
    Some people would hit them but never very hard.

    Now; if some nutter decided to hit the person on the head with a brick I am sure that the child who pinned the note would be held responsible to some degree.
     
  10. JerichoHill

    JerichoHill Bedrock of Knowledge

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    In more bad news, our "friends" at the Westboro Baptist Church are going to "attend" the 9 year old's funeral.

    Because, as they said "God Sent the Shooter"

    Ugh.
     
  11. Mathilda

    Mathilda Queen

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    Those people make it very difficult for me not to break the forum rules.
     
  12. GhostWriter16

    GhostWriter16 Deity

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    Wonderful :sarcasm:

    I agree. Ugh...

    They should have it on private property so they can keep the bozos out.

    @Mathilda- You and me both....
     
  13. Cu Chulainn

    Cu Chulainn The Unoriginal

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    There has to be some kind of legal countermeasure to be taken against those WBC "people". Some manner of recourse for decent people to keep them from getting their way all the time.
     
  14. metatron

    metatron unperson

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    Just think about how they probably deal with everyday life.
    Chances are they are having pretty miserable lives anyway.
     
  15. GhostWriter16

    GhostWriter16 Deity

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    As much as you might like too, if you take away their right to free speech, you are opening a whole different can of worms.

    Government cannot interfere with freedom of speech, period.

    The best you can do is hold it on private property, then you can make them leave, and if they are stupid enough to refuse, well, then we can deal with them:mischief:
     
  16. .Shane.

    .Shane. Take it like a voter Retired Moderator

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    Wrong. There are a whole host of limitations on free speech.

    Its just that in the case of the Phelps clan what they do is heavily protected.
     
  17. Cu Chulainn

    Cu Chulainn The Unoriginal

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    No kidding, hence the term "legal" thrown in there. There has to be some Constitutional way to keep these pathetic losers from winning all the time. Hold a decoy funeral, or change the location last second to some out of the way place in podunk AZ.
     
  18. Wilks johnson

    Wilks johnson Warlord

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    Sad. I hope the protest won't be right next to where the funeral is taking place. :(
     
  19. Tani Coyote

    Tani Coyote Son of Huehuecoyotl

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    Didn't we ban protests at soldier's funerals? Or something like that? If so, why do we give this exclusively to soldiers? We should certainly extend these protections to include everyday folk as well.
     
  20. duckstab

    duckstab Child of Noble Family

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    Agreed, he's definitely a nut.

    The point is, when you tell your people to bring guns to rallies... that your political opponents are trying to destroy America, pull the plug on grandma, and take away everything you own to give it to illegal immigrants... when you have a pattern of using phrases like "don't retreat, RELOAD"... when you casually talk about "second amendment remedies", it's at best disingenuous to claim to be shocked and appalled when some mentally disturbed individual takes you at your word. Saying that this guy was just an isolated incident only provides cover for the politicians and pundits who are building careers and fortunes peddling this toxic spew.

    Oh, and before anyone accuses me of political correctness: When you call America the Great Satan, accuse the US of defiling the holy places of Islam and wanting to stamp it out, it's at best disingenuous to claim to be shocked and appalled when some mentally disturbed individual starts gunning down soldiers at an army base. Why is it not fair to compare the two situations? Because American politicians and media outlets don't have any control over whatever anti-American screed Al-Qaeda pushes, but they do have control over their own mouths, if they'd just choose to exercise it.
     

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