US electoral system one of the worst in the world

Ahovking · Nov 1, 2012

In Marion, Ohio people are lining up to vote early but it seems that something is wrong, when checking who you voted for people found that while voting for mitt Romney the machines counted the vote for Obama while if you had voted for Obama it would of been counted for Obama.

Marion, Ohio (The Marion Star) -- Sophie Rogers, director of the Marion County Board of Elections, said the incident involving an errant vote has been settled.

"We have to assure the members of Marion County that there is nothing wrong with the election," she said on Wednesday.

When a Marion Star article pointing out the problem a local early voter had getting her vote to register properly hit the internet, it sparked national attention.

With numerous callers and emailers contacting The Star, including readers from Florida, Oregon, Texas and New York, it is not an isolated incident.

read the rest here:
http://www.wtsp.com/news/national/article/280630/81/Voting-machine-problems-raise-questions

I would also like to add.

The chief of Russia's Central Election Commission, Vladimir Churov, ranks the US electoral system as one of the worst in the world. The west is quite familiar with criticism by western observers of elections in other parts of the world but now the United States is also being criticized by the head of the Russian Central Election Commission. In an article in a Russian news outlet, Vladimir Churov claims that the US voting system lacks transparency.

Just want to say things like this should NEVER happen to a first world nation. Its these problem that make people think America could be in some sort of social/political decline.

bhsup · Nov 1, 2012

News flash to the rest of the world. Ohio is not the United States. It is one state among 50 and to suggest that because Ohio sucks the rest suck shows a complete lack of understanding of the United States, thereby totally invalidating those foreign opinions. There is no such thing as a "US electoral system" unless they are specifically talking about the Electoral College, which really doesn't have any bearing on polling stations.

ComradeDavo · Nov 1, 2012

It is bad yes. But Russia's is terriable. Very undemocratic. So probably best to pick a different country when looking for critical quotes about it!

Arwon · Nov 1, 2012

VRWCAgent said:
News flash to the rest of the world. Ohio is not the United States. It is one state among 50 and to suggest that because Ohio sucks the rest suck shows a complete lack of understanding of the United States, thereby totally invalidating those foreign opinions. There is no such thing as a "US electoral system" unless they are specifically talking about the Electoral College, which really doesn't have any bearing on polling stations.

That's pretty terrible in itself really. Letting states and counties run their own chunk of a national election seems a recipe for shenanigans.

bugwar · Nov 1, 2012

Arwon said:
That's pretty terrible in itself really. Letting states and counties run their own chunk of a national election seems a recipe for shenanigans.

Yes. Dump local supervision and responsibility.

Let the professional Federal criminals run the elections, keep the amateurs out.

The nanny state Collective never misses a beat in either belittling the individual or encouraging groupthink.

Core Imposter · Nov 1, 2012

This is happening in a number of states and appears to be a quirk with certain voting systems. If not properly prepared they do in fact seem to err for Obama. I have not seen reports of it being the other way round.

Might be a programing issue related to the alphabet.

Is it possible that this election could be determined by deliberate hacking efforts? Yes. We should be using paper ballots imo.

bhsup · Nov 1, 2012

Arwon said:
That's pretty terrible in itself really. Letting states and counties run their own chunk of a national election seems a recipe for shenanigans.

Again, I think this is where foreign confusion is coming into play. We have no national election. This next Tuesday people in all the States will be going to vote for how their State will have its electors vote in the Electoral College. Nothing beyond State electors and other State level federal offices, State offices, county offices, etc are being decided. The President will actually be elected later in December by the Electoral College.

In other words, everything this next Tuesday is solely a State issue, State by State.

Murky · Nov 1, 2012

I'd say that the Ohio and Florida election systems are pretty bad. There isn't enough information to say that every state/county has problems. The major problems came when some officials realized they could hide election fraud inside electronic voting machines. This is well documented. It's things like that cause you to end up with imbeciles in high places. That's going to come back to bite them because those imbeciles will ruin the party brand like with George W. Bush.

Goodfella · Nov 1, 2012

VRWCAgent said:
News flash to the rest of the world. Ohio is not the United States. It is one state among 50 and to suggest that because Ohio sucks the rest suck shows a complete lack of understanding of the United States, thereby totally invalidating those foreign opinions. There is no such thing as a "US electoral system" unless they are specifically talking about the Electoral College, which really doesn't have any bearing on polling stations.

You don't even need to say Ohio. It's Marion County, Ohio. Obviously with a population of 300 million in the whole country. there will be issues somewhere.

This is such a ridiculous thread. The premise holds that the US has the worst electoral system (whatever that means) in the world because 1 county in 1 state screwed something up! Seriously, think that over for a sec. And then you get a quote from a Russian! Is this a joke? I mean, maybe if you got a quote from a Swede or a Canadian. But a Russian! :lol:

Oh yeah: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index

Spoiler :

Bottom line is that isolated incidents are bound to occur in the third most populous country and that all organizations still hold that US democracy is at least decent. I'm not saying it's the best, but it's certainly not the worst.

King Kalmah · Nov 1, 2012

Ahovking said:
Just want to say things like this should NEVER happen to a first world nation. Its these problem that make people think America could be in some sort of social/political decline.

and yet it happens since 2000...I think my other posts are validated by the Russian Voting Commissioner...Never thought I'd say that(hangs his head in shame,but we are heading towards some weird Dictatorship,but with "voting" mixed in/corporate control over the figure head running the nation.I wonder if this is how elections work in China?)

bhsup · Nov 1, 2012

That democracy list is a joke. There are nine nations ahead of the United States which still have a hereditary monarch as their head of State.

Ahovking · Nov 1, 2012

Goodfella said:
You don't even need to say Ohio. It's Marion County, Ohio. Obviously with a population of 300 million in the whole country. there will be issues somewhere.

This is such a ridiculous thread. The premise holds that the US has the worst electoral system (whatever that means) in the world because 1 county in 1 state screwed something up! Seriously, think that over for a sec. And then you get a quote from a Russian! Is this a joke? I mean, maybe if you got a quote from a Swede or a Canadian. But a Russian!

Oh yeah: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index

Spoiler :

1 Norway 9-10 Full democracy Constitutional monarchy and parliamentary democracy, unicameralism
2 Iceland 9-10 Full democracy Parliamentary republic and parliamentary democracy, unicameralism
3 Denmark 9-10 Full democracy Constitutional monarchy and parliamentary democracy, unicameralism
4 Sweden 9-10 Full democracy Constitutional monarchy and parliamentary democracy, unicameralism
5 New Zealand 9-10 Full democracy Constitutional monarchy and parliamentary democracy, unicameralism
6 Australia 9-10 Full democracy Federalism, constitutional monarchy and parliamentary democracy, bicameralism
7 Switzerland 9-10 Full democracy Federalism, directorial system, bicameralism
8 Canada 9-10 Full democracy Federalism, constitutional monarchy and parliamentary democracy, bicameralism,
9 Finland 9-10 Full democracy Parliamentary republic and parliamentary democracy, unicameralism
10 Netherlands 9-10 Full democracy Constitutional monarchy, parliamentary democracy, bicameralism
11 Luxembourg 8-9 Full democracy Constitutional monarchy and parliamentary democracy, unicameralism
12 Ireland 8-9 Full democracy Parliamentary republic and parliamentary democracy, bicameralism
13 Austria 8-9 Full democracy Federalism, parliamentary republic and parliamentary democracy, bicameralism
14 Germany 8-9 Full democracy Federalism, parliamentary republic and parliamentary democracy, bicameralism
15 Malta 8-9 Full democracy Parliamentary republic and parliamentary democracy, unicameralism
16 Czech Republic 8-9 Full democracy Parliamentary republic and parliamentary democracy, bicameralism
17 Uruguay 8-9 Full democracy Presidential system, bicameralism
18 United Kingdom 8-9 Full democracy Constitutional monarchy and parliamentary democracy, bicameralism
19 United States 8-9 Full democracy Federalism, constitutional republic, presidential system, bicameralism
20 Costa Rica 8-9 Full democracy Presidential system
21 Japan 8-9 Full democracy Constitutional monarchy and parliamentary democracy, bicameralism
22 South Korea 8-9 Full democracy Semi-presidential system, unicameralism
23 Belgium 8-9 Full democracy Federalism, constitutional monarchy and parliamentary democracy, bicameralism
24 Mauritius 8-9 Full democracy Parliamentary republic and parliamentary democracy
25 Spain 8-9 Full democracy Constitutional monarchy and parliamentary democracy, bicameralism
26 Cape Verde 7-8 Flawed democracy Unitary parliamentary republic
27 Portugal 7-8 Flawed democracy Parliamentary republic and parliamentary democracy
28 South Africa 7-8 Flawed democracy Constitutional democracy, bicameralism
29 France 7-8 Flawed democracy Semi-presidential system, bicameralism
30 Slovenia 7-8 Flawed democracy Constitutional democracy, incomplete bicameralism
31 Italy 7-8 Flawed democracy Bicameralism, parliamentary republic and parliamentary democracy
32 Greece 7-8 Flawed democracy Parliamentary republic and parliamentary democracy
33 Botswana 7-8 Flawed democracy Parliamentary republic, unicameralism
34 Estonia 7-8 Flawed democracy Parliamentary republic, unicameralism
35 Chile 7-8 Flawed democracy Presidential system, bicameralism
36 Israel 7-8 Flawed democracy Parliamentary democracy, unicameralism
37 Taiwan 7-8 Flawed democracy Semi-presidential system, unicameralism
38 Slovakia 7-8 Flawed democracy Parliamentary republic, unicameralism
39 India 7-8 Flawed democracy Federalism, parliamentary democracy, bicameralism
40 Cyprus 7-8 Flawed democracy Presidential republic, unicameralism
41 Lithuania 7-8 Flawed democracy Semi-presidential republic, unicameralism
42 Timor-Leste 7-8 Flawed democracy Parliamentary republic
43 Trinidad and Tobago 7-8 Flawed democracy Parliamentary republic
44 Jamaica 7-8 Flawed democracy Constitutional monarchy and parliamentary democracy, unicameralism
45 Poland 7-8 Flawed democracy Parliamentary republic, bicameralism
45 Brazil 7-8 Flawed democracy Federalism, presidential system, bicameralism
47 Panama 7-8 Flawed democracy Constitutional democracy
48 Latvia 7-8 Flawed democracy Parliamentary republic, unicameralism
49 Hungary 7-8 Flawed democracy Parliamentary republic, unicameralism
50 Mexico 6-7 Flawed democracy Federalism, presidential system, republic
51 Argentina 6-7 Flawed democracy Federalism, presidential system, bicameralism
52 Bulgaria 6-7 Flawed democracy Parliamentary democracy
53 Croatia 6-7 Flawed democracy Parliamentary republic, unicameralism
54 Suriname 6-7 Flawed democracy Constitutional democracy
55 Colombia 6-7 Flawed democracy Presidential system, republic
56 Peru 6-7 Flawed democracy Presidential system, republic, unicameralism
57 Sri Lanka 6-7 Flawed democracy Semi-presidential system, democratic socialist republic
58 Thailand 6-7 Flawed democracy Constitutional monarchy, parliamentary democracy, bicameralism
59 Romania 6-7 Flawed democracy Semi-presidential system, bicameralism
60 Indonesia 6-7 Flawed democracy Presidential system, republic, regional state, bicameralism
61 El Salvador 6-7 Flawed democracy Presidential system, republic
62 Paraguay 6-7 Flawed democracy Constitutional republic, presidential system
63 Mali 6-7 Flawed democracy Semi-presidential system
64 Serbia 6-7 Flawed democracy Parliamentary republic
64 Lesotho 6-7 Flawed democracy Constitutional monarchy, parliamentary system
64 Moldova 6-7 Flawed democracy Parliamentary republic
67 Papua New Guinea 6-7 Flawed democracy Constitutional monarchy, Parliamentary democracy, unicameralism
68 Namibia 6-7 Flawed democracy Republic
69 Mongolia 6-7 Flawed democracy Semi-presidential system, republic
70 Dominican Republic 6-7 Flawed democracy Democratic republic, representative democracy
71 Malaysia 6-7 Flawed democracy Constitutional monarchy, Parliamentary democracy, Federalism, bicameralism
71 Zambia 6-7 Flawed democracy Presidential system, representative democracy
73 Macedonia 6-7 Flawed democracy Parliamentary republic
74 Montenegro 6-7 Flawed democracy Parliamentary republic
75 Philippines 6-7 Flawed democracy Presidential system, constitutional republic, bicameralism
76 Benin 6-7 Flawed democracy Republic
77 Guyana 6-7 Flawed democracy Semi-presidential system, republic
78 Ghana 6-7 Flawed democracy Presidential system, constitutional republic
79 Ukraine 5-6 Hybrid regime Semi-presidential system, republic
80 Hong Kong 5-6 Hybrid regime Quasi-presidential Autonomous region with limited suffrage, unicameralism
81 Singapore 5-6 Hybrid regime Parliamentary republic
82 Guatemala 5-6 Hybrid regime Presidential republic
83 Bangladesh 5-6 Hybrid regime Parliamentary republic, unitary state
84 Bolivia 5-6 Hybrid regime Presidential republic, unitary state
84 Honduras 5-6 Hybrid regime Constitutional republic
86 Malawi 5-6 Hybrid regime Republic
87 Albania 5-6 Hybrid regime Parliamentary republic
88 Turkey 5-6 Hybrid regime Parliamentary republic
89 Ecuador 5-6 Hybrid regime Presidential system
90 Tanzania 5-6 Hybrid regime Republic
91 Nicaragua 5-6 Hybrid regime Presidential republic
92 Tunisia 5-6 Hybrid regime Republic
93 Senegal 5-6 Hybrid regime Semi-presidential system
94 Lebanon 5-6 Hybrid regime Confessionalist parliamentary republic
95 Bosnia and Herzegovina 5-6 Hybrid regime Semi-presidential system
96 Uganda 5-6 Hybrid regime Presidential system, republic
97 Venezuela 5-6 Hybrid regime Federalism, presidential system
98 Liberia 5-6 Hybrid regime Presidential republic
99 Palestine 4-5 Hybrid regime Semi-presidential system, parliamentary democracy
100 Mozambique 4-5 Hybrid regime Presidential system
101 Cambodia 4-5 Hybrid regime Constitutional monarchy, parliamentary democracy
102 Georgia 4-5 Hybrid regime Semi-presidential system, republic
103 Kenya 4-5 Hybrid regime Presidential system
104 Bhutan 4-5 Hybrid regime Constitutional monarchy, parliamentary democracy
105 Pakistan 4-5 Hybrid regime Islamic republic, federalism, parliamentary republic
106 Sierra Leone 4-5 Hybrid regime Constitutional republic
107 Kyrgyzstan 4-5 Hybrid regime Parliamentary republic
108 Nepal 4-5 Hybrid regime Parliamentary republic
109 Mauritania 4-5 Hybrid regime Islamic republic
110 Niger 4-5 Hybrid regime Semi-presidential republic
111 Armenia 4-5 Hybrid regime Presidential republic
112 Iraq 4-5 Hybrid regime Parliamentary republic
113 Burundi 4-5 Hybrid regime Republic
114 Haiti 4-5 Hybrid regime Semi-presidential system, republic
115 Egypt 3-4 Hybrid regime Semi-presidential republic
116 Madagascar 3-4 Authoritarian regime Presidential system
117 Russia 3-4 Authoritarian regime Federalism, semi-presidential system, bicameralism
118 Jordan 3-4 Authoritarian regime Constitutional monarchy
119 Nigeria 3-4 Authoritarian regime Federalism, presidential system
119 Morocco 3-4 Authoritarian regime Constitutional monarchy, bicameralism
121 Ethiopia 3-4 Authoritarian regime Federalism, parliamentary republic
122 Kuwait 3-4 Authoritarian regime Constitutional monarchy
123 Fiji 3-4 Authoritarian regime Military appointed Parliamentary republic
124 Burkina Faso 3-4 Authoritarian regime Semi-presidential system, republic
125 Libya 3-4 Authoritarian regime Provisional Parliamentary republic
126 Cuba 3-4 Authoritarian regime Socialist republic, single-party communist state
126 Comoros 3-4 Authoritarian regime Federal republic
128 Gabon 3-4 Authoritarian regime Republic
129 Togo 3-4 Authoritarian regime Republic
130 Algeria 3-4 Authoritarian regime Semi-presidential system, republic
131 Cameroon 3-4 Authoritarian regime Republic
132 The Gambia 3-4 Authoritarian regime Republic
133 Angola 3-4 Authoritarian regime Presidential system
134 Oman 3-4 Authoritarian regime Islamic absolute monarchy
134 Swaziland 3-4 Authoritarian regime Absolute monarchy
136 Rwanda 3-4 Authoritarian regime Republic
137 Kazakhstan 3-4 Authoritarian regime Presidential system
138 Qatar 3-4 Authoritarian regime Constitutional monarchy
139 Belarus 3-4 Authoritarian regime Presidential system
140 Azerbaijan 3-4 Authoritarian regime Presidential system
141 People's Republic of China 3-4 Authoritarian regime People's democratic dictatorship, single-party communist state
142 Côte dIvoire 3-4 Authoritarian regime Semi-presidential system, republic
143 Vietnam 2-3 Authoritarian regime Socialist republic, single-party communist state
144 Bahrain 2-3 Authoritarian regime Constitutional monarchy
145 Republic of the Congo 2-3 Authoritarian regime Republic
146 Guinea 2-3 Authoritarian regime Presidential republic
147 Zimbabwe 2-3 Authoritarian regime Semi-presidential, parliamentary, consociationalist republic
147 Djibouti 2-3 Authoritarian regime Semi-presidential republic
149 United Arab Emirates 2-3 Authoritarian regime Federalism, constitutional monarchy
150 Yemen 2-3 Authoritarian regime Republic
151 Tajikistan 2-3 Authoritarian regime Presidential system
152 Afghanistan 2-3 Authoritarian regime Islamic republic
153 Sudan 2-3 Authoritarian regime Federalism, presidential system, republic
154 Eritrea 2-3 Authoritarian regime Semi-presidential republic
155 Democratic Republic of the Congo 2-3 Authoritarian regime Semi-presidential republic
156 Laos 2-3 Authoritarian regime Socialist republic, single-party communist state
157 Guinea-Bissau 1-2 Authoritarian regime Semi-presidential system, republic
157 Syria 1-2 Authoritarian regime Presidential system, single party, republic
159 Iran 1-2 Authoritarian regime Islamic republic
160 Central African Republic 1-2 Authoritarian regime Republic
161 Saudi Arabia 1-2 Authoritarian regime Islamic absolute monarchy
161 Equatorial Guinea 1-2 Authoritarian regime Presidential republic
161 Burma 1-2 Authoritarian regime Unitary presidential republic
164 Uzbekistan 1-2 Authoritarian regime Presidential republic
165 Turkmenistan 1-2 Authoritarian regime Presidential republic, single-party state
166 Chad 1-2 Authoritarian regime Republic
167 North Korea 1-2 Authoritarian regime Juche unitary single-party state

Bottom line is that isolated incidents are bound to occur in the third most populous country and that all organizations still hold that US democracy is at least decent. I'm not saying it's the best, but it's certainly not the worst.

The United States is meant to be the golden model of a democratic Democracy, the freest country on earth but its not in Democracy Index it ranks 19 while in freedom it ranks 10, that's unacceptable for any modern Democracy superpower that prides it self for being the defender of Democracy.

KMRblue1027 · Nov 1, 2012

VRWCAgent said:
That democracy list is a joke. There are nine nations ahead of the United States which still have a hereditary monarch as their head of State.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_monarchy

Nowadays a parliamentary democracy that is a constitutional monarchy is considered to differ from one that is a republic only in detail rather than in substance. In both cases, the titular head of state - monarch or president - serves the traditional role of embodying and representing the nation, while the government is carried on by a cabinet composed predominantly of elected Members of Parliament. Constitutional monarchies are sometimes referred to as "crowned republics".

ZeletDude · Nov 1, 2012

VRWCAgent said:
That democracy list is a joke. There are nine nations ahead of the United States which still have a hereditary monarch as their head of State.

That are mere figureheads.. :rolleyes:

edit - xpost

History_Buff · Nov 1, 2012

For the last god damn time: USE PAPER BALLOTS

King Kalmah · Nov 1, 2012

ZeletDude said:
That are mere figureheads..

edit - xpost

Basically since America has all the celebrities the Europeans need someone to have the paparazzi chase around and take nude pictures of their princess... :lol:

but yeah they hold Zero power...its like saying Uncle Sam(the cartoon) holds power it is merely a tool of nationalism and the only power it emits is what the nationalists put into it.(if you ignore the Queen/King then they really don't exist...)

Arwon · Nov 1, 2012

VRWCAgent said:
Again, I think this is where foreign confusion is coming into play. We have no national election. This next Tuesday people in all the States will be going to vote for how their State will have its electors vote in the Electoral College. Nothing beyond State electors and other State level federal offices, State offices, county offices, etc are being decided. The President will actually be elected later in December by the Electoral College.

In other words, everything this next Tuesday is solely a State issue, State by State.

Yes, we have a federalism too. That doesn't mean it's a good idea to let the local councils run important things like elections. It seems utterly mad that even things like registration rules and counting procedures are different from one state to another.

bugwar said:
Yes. Dump local supervision and responsibility.

Let the professional Federal criminals run the elections, keep the amateurs out.

The nanny state Collective never misses a beat in either belittling the individual or encouraging groupthink.

What the hell are you talking about? Of course if you have a single, properly resourced, impartial electoral body administering a single set of rules, you're going to get better-run elections.

Goodfella · Nov 1, 2012

Ahovking said:
The United States is meant to be the golden model of a democratic Democracy, the freest country on earth but its not in Democracy Index it ranks 19 while in freedom it ranks 10, that's unacceptable for any modern Democracy superpower that prides it self for being the defender of Democracy.

So if I'm following your logic here, the US electoral system is one of the best in the world, but it's not quite the best, therefore it is the worst. :confused:

woody60707 · Nov 2, 2012

Murky said:
I'd say that the Ohio and Florida election systems are pretty bad. There isn't enough information to say that every state/county has problems. The major problems came when some officials realized they could hide election fraud inside electronic voting machines. This is well documented. It's things like that cause you to end up with imbeciles in high places. That's going to come back to bite them because those imbeciles will ruin the party brand like with George W. Bush.

I love when people on the internet say it's well documented. 9/11 truthers were well documented too. It's the internet, you get anything "well documented", but that doesn't mean anything if the document is crap.

OSCE election observers have been observing US elections since 2002. Not once have they ever came across anything but very minor issues. The internet gives rise to a wide range of conspiracy theories, but they never really ever pan out. We have everything from 9/11 truthers, planet X and free energy cold fusion. And no one seems to ever find out about these things but people on the internet.

The POTUS is a Democrat. You think he's not even going to at least look in to this if there was any truth to it? ... but wait, most conspiracy theories think the President is in on "it" (What "it" is seems to change a lot).

Voter fraud is very rare in the US. No, it's just not the other side that does it. ... no one does.

Arwon · Nov 2, 2012

Disenfranchisement and turnout suppression on the other hand...

US electoral system one of the worst in the world

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