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US electoral system one of the worst in the world

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Ahovking, Nov 1, 2012.

  1. red_elk

    red_elk Deity

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    Probably.
    I'm not an expert in this field (just as you, most likely), and not competent enough to compare electoral systems. But the topic is about US electoral system and answering to criticism by pointing fingers to the others is "And you are lynching negroes!" style argument.
     
  2. Goodfella

    Goodfella Showing results for

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    When the thread is titled "US has one of the worst electoral systems in the world" it opens up discussion regarding the truth of that statement. You don't need to be an expert. Quick research into the matter finds studies from various organizations that typically have very similar results.

    World Audit Democracy:
    US: #15
    Russia: #133

    Democracy barometer:
    US: #14
    Russia: Not democratic

    Democracy Index:
    US: #19, full democracy
    Russia: #117, authoritarian regime

    The results are pretty similar for each group: the US is in the top 14-19 countries while Russia is not democratic. Considering that there are 196 countries and the US is in the top 20, I think the thread should be: "US electoral system one of the best in the world, but still has some flaws that should be worked out." The problem is that that thread is not nearly as provocative as the OP would like, so he made do with a much more inaccurate one. This reflects his ignorance and intent.
     
  3. red_elk

    red_elk Deity

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    What are these organizations, where they are located and where they receive funding from? How much their democracy index value correlates with the quality of electoral system?

    Finally, what the quality of Russian democracy has to do with the flaws of American electoral system, being discussed here? If an expert comes up with argumentative critics, it doesn't matter where he is from, Australia, Russia, Canada or North Korea.
     
  4. Antilogic

    Antilogic --

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    Not only this, but most states are run by patisan election officials.



    ...and we are talking about Russia now. Oh well, subscription post.
     
  5. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    If you don't say "imperialist Western media" it doesn't count.
     
  6. red_elk

    red_elk Deity

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    Not all Western media are imperialist, just as not all imperialist media are Western.
     
  7. Goodfella

    Goodfella Showing results for

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    I gave you three so you wouldn't claim their biased. Looks like that didn't stop you.
    Whatever, just go find me any group that puts Russia as high ranked and I'll criticize that group instead. You probably won't find one because "[the Russian] electoral system is one of the worst in the world".

    Democracy and elections are kind of related, don't you think?

    I already discussed this. The thread is not just about the flaws in the US electoral system. The OP said it is one of the worst in the world. I am arguing with that claim. That is what it has to do with "what is being discussed here".
     
  8. red_elk

    red_elk Deity

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    I didn't claim they are biased. I asked where they are getting funding from, and their location.
    Yes, kind of.
    You can discuss it with OP. My statement was that whatever democracy rating Russia has, it doesn't make criticism from Russian expert less valid.
     
  9. ori

    ori Repair Guy Super Moderator

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    World Audit: published by a christian development charity, based in the UK
    Democracy Barometer: published by a research cooperation from a Berlin (Germany) based publicly funded research center and Zurich (Switzerland) University.
    Democracy Index: published by a company (also UK) belonging to the economist publishing group.

    It actually covers quite a spread of ideological streams in their outlook - though of course all Western Europe based :mischief:
     
  10. red_elk

    red_elk Deity

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    An important thing is that many democracy-related parameters are reputation-based, determined by expert assessments and opinion surveys. I'm quite confident that even if Russia suddenly became the most democratic country in the world, it wouldn't immediately put it even in top ten countries in such ratings.

    They cannot put countries with not good enough reputation (for example, China) above any Western European or North American country in their rating, it would simply destroy their credibility.

    Moreover, transparency of elections is just one factor in democracy rating, and probably the one which can be measured more objectively than, say, corruption perception index.
     
  11. metatron

    metatron unperson

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    A sidenote:
    I doubt i have stood more than 5 minutes in line in all elections in my life so far combined.

    Just saying...
     
  12. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

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    Some jurisdictions in the US have good systems and there is little to no wait. Others have long waits. It depends on where you are and how they set it up.
     
  13. bhsup

    bhsup Deity

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    It also depends on the time. In 1996 I didn't make it before work so went after work and stood in line for a couple of hours. I usually try to get to the polls before they open and have a very short wait.

    And as regards the couple of hours wait. Big deal. It is the election for the leader of the free world (deal with it) and worth a little standing around. If people cannot be arsed to sacrifice that much of their time to perform their civic duty, then they don't love their country.
     
  14. Arwon

    Arwon

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    Or there could just be more booths and more poll workers.
     
  15. Camikaze

    Camikaze Administrator Administrator

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    Should people who don't love their country not be allowed to vote?

    What if you're a single mum looking after toddlers? Standing in line for a couple of hours is hardly doable. Tuesday afternoon would seem a particularly inconvenient time, compared to a weekend.
     
  16. bhsup

    bhsup Deity

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    If making it to vote on election day is going to be a hassle, arrange ahead of time for an absentee ballot to be sent to you. That's what my grandparents would do because they weren't up to standing in line anymore in their last years.

    The State should not have to bend over backwards to try to over-accommodate every possible scenario of voter issues. The voter has to take some responsibility upon themselves to vote. It's called civic duty, not "civic meh whatever if I have time and can be arsed to bother with it."
     
  17. Camikaze

    Camikaze Administrator Administrator

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    Surely cutting down queues from being a couple of hours long is not bending over backwards to over-accomodate every possible scenario in which people do not have a couple of hours to stand in a queue.
     
  18. bhsup

    bhsup Deity

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    I see no problem with 2 hour waits, though, so why should I care about having anything done to alleviate that? Again, if people do not care enough about their country to be willing to sacrifice that much time once every four years, maybe they should just not bother voting because frankly they don't care enough to begin with.
     
  19. Evie

    Evie Pronounced like Eevee

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    The questions are not "Why should the state have to bend over backward?" or "Is there somethign wrong with 2 hours wait".

    The questions are, "Is is better to have fifeen minutes or two hours wait?" and "If other states, provinces, countries, etc, can do it, why can't we?".
     
  20. bhsup

    bhsup Deity

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    Honestly? I couldn't care less what other states, provinces, and countries do as it relates to Missouri. Our elections are fine as they are, occasional 2-hour wait included. I don't think that in any way makes it a bad election process or something to look at for improving. Most parts of the day would see the bulk of extra voting booths being unused, so that's just stupid wasteful spending to have a massive excess just to deal with a one time peak at the end of the day.
     

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