US military budget

[psweetman1590]

For those who wonder how the US can be having such issues in Iraq, I think it prudent to point out a simple fact. There are three branches of defense, naturally (navy/marines, airforce, army). As said, the US spends a lot of it's money on power projection. This requires a large navy and airforce. That comes at the expense of the army. From the chart that was posted on page 1, it is obvious to note that, while the funding is split relatively evenly, both the navy and the airforce are taking in far more money than the army.

Yet, the airforce and navy aren't what's going to win in Iraq, nor is it what might invade Iran in the future.

Just thought I'd point that out. Our army is probably not the most well funded (I'd bet on China for that). It's our navy and airforce that are taking in most of the money, and those are the strengths that we have to rely on, whether attempting to project power in an invasion, or fighting a pitched battle. Unfortunately, attempting to flush out and defeat terrorists does neither.

 

[neviden]

Every nation has this capabilty.

Since more money = more capability I would think that by looking at numbers you could get pretty good picture at who is capable of doing what. Successfully of course..

No it wouldn't, but hopefully it would be able to hold out long enough for forces from other democracies to bail them out.

If China would indeed invade, other democracies would indeed help it out. But is capable of such invasion? Nope.. at least not right now.. and if it would try to build such a capability, that would take a lot of time and that would mean Taiwan would also get a lot of time to buy/build weapons to counter that threat. It is rich enough to afford it..

But like I said.. China is many things, but it hardly is stupid..

If we go to war with China, our debt to them immediately becomes a trivial matter.

Sure it does. Not least because both China and US have lots of nukes..

And the "single bullet" you think China has is aimed squarely at it's own head. You are mistaken in who is beholden to who.

US has $700 billion yearly trade deficit, 0% saving rate and the dollar is loosing value constantly against Euro but not against China, since they decide at what rate they want to sell cheap crap to US. China has $1200 billion in its reserves, 30% saving rate and has recently started to transfer that money to SWFs and out of useless T-bonds and into stocks.. few years/decades and foreigners will basically own US.. They already own 40% of US debt..

 

[Mulholland]

The military budget maybe relatively small but the cost of the completely unrelated Iraq war is huge!! It could possibly surpass one trillion dollars.
http://www.nationalpriorities.org/Cost-of-War/Cost-of-War-3.html

 

[Trajan12]

AFAIK it's four percent of your GDP, which is something completely different.

pretty sure like 75% of our national budget goes toward 'defense,' another big chunk goes to servicing the national debt and what's leftover goes to things like public schools and healthcare or lack thereof.

what about a educational hospital complex? peace could be both popular and profitable. for every one bomb the US doesn't buy a teacher could be hired and a school could be built. that's like a hundred jobs right there.

My mistake, I meant GDP. Which means yes it's still a negligible amount compared to how much we have but on how much we spend, we could send more to other places.

 

[lovett]

And the "single bullet" you think China has is aimed squarely at it's own head. You are mistaken in who is beholden to who.

Actually, As somebody has mentioned China has huge, absolutely massive reserves of US dollars. If they chose to release these into the currency markets then you can bet that the US dollar would completely collapse, it would lose huge amount of it's value and thus wreck the American, and probably much of the worlds economy. Simple laws of supply and demand really.

Of course, China would also be economically devastated as her largest (US) export market would be completely cut off, and her second largest (The EU) would also drastically reduce imports, thanks to a general decrease in profit and increase in instability.

The economic equivalent of the MAD policy tbh

I know Projection is extremely expensive, I just dont think its paying off.

Relating to the actual original point (how novel) I think one of the reasons the US spends so much on power projection is that they don't really need a defensive army.I mean, C'mon, whos going to attack them, Canada? Pacifist Japan? And anyway, Nuclear supremacy means they could wipe any serious invasion attempt of the face of the Earth. Thus, they have all this money and want to spend it on something concievably useful, hence-power projection. This just happens to be the most expensive thing in the booklet

 

[Integral]

Actually, As somebody has mentioned China has huge, absolutely massive reserves of US dollars. If they chose to release these into the currency markets then you can bet that the US dollar would completely collapse, it would lose huge amount of it's value and thus wreck the American, and probably much of the worlds economy. Simple laws of supply and demand really.

Of course, China would also be economically devastated as her largest (US) export market would be completely cut off, and her second largest (The EU) would also drastically reduce imports, thanks to a general decrease in profit and increase in instability.

The economic equivalent of the MAD policy tbh

Recall that the yuan is pegged to the dollar. Any devaluation of the dollar will drag the yuan down with it. The Chinese don't want that to happen.

Honestly, why is everyone so scared of China?

Relating to the actual original point (how novel) I think one of the reasons the US spends so much on power projection is that they don't really need a defensive army.I mean, C'mon, whos going to attack them, Canada? Pacifist Japan? And anyway, Nuclear supremacy means they could wipe any serious invasion attempt of the face of the Earth. Thus, they have all this money and want to spend it on something concievably useful, hence-power projection. This just happens to be the most expensive thing in the booklet

$550 billion to defense. 4% of GDP and maybe 20% of Federal spending. Could it stand to be lowered? Absolutely. Is it really holding the economy back? No. Look to the outstanding payments on the entitlement programs for that.

The expenditures on Iraq, over $200 billion per year, are more troublesome because the only benefit is very long-term, and it's a rather risky investment.


-Integral

 

[lovett]

Recall that the yuan is pegged to the dollar. Any devaluation of the dollar will drag the yuan down with it. The Chinese don't want that to happen.

Honestly, why is everyone so scared of China?

Frankly I agree. Im just pointing out that China isn't quite as vulnerable economically as one would believe, looking at its complete reliance on export alone.

Of course, saying that countries are unlikely to go to war because of economic interdependency has a bit of deja-vu to it, doesn't it?

 

[neviden]

Recall that the yuan is pegged to the dollar. Any devaluation of the dollar will drag the yuan down with it. The Chinese don't want that to happen.

Yuan is pegged to dollar by.. Chinese. If they decide to peg the Yuan to Euros and then proceed to sell dollars on massive scale, then panic ensues.. yes, Chinese would not be able to sell things to US anymore and would have to find ways to use their products in China or in the rest of the world, but that would not hurt them as much as it would hurt the US that would find its currency plummeting prices rising, and everybody else in panic and trying to dump dollars before they fall even further.

How long before everyone else would be saying: “You want to buy this? Sure, but do you have anything other than dollars”..

Honestly, why is everyone so scared of China?

I have no idea. Maybe something to do with dollar, but more probably simple US paranoia.. It is the world’s greatest military power with secure borders, yet it acts like it is under siege and about to be destroyed.

 

[warpus]

Honestly, why is everyone so scared of China? l

You gotta be scared of something.

Terrorists, killer bees, illegal immigrants.. China!

They're just weird... they eat dogs.

 

[CIVPhilzilla]

The US can dominate any military it faces. Look at the first 3 weeks of the Iraq war, that's where the military's strength lies. Blowing stuff up and taking out the enemy is easy, maintaining a military presence and rebulding a country rife with sectarian violence is not easy for anybody.

 

[Nobody]

Well america pays its military good Salary, i bet that makes up a huge chunk of the money, also while the the Russian army is in russia, and the chinese army is in china. The American military is all around the world. With big bases in europe, asia and the middle east.

 

[uppi]

PS I'm assuming you're a yank with that comment. Apologies if not mate!

Uh...I am no yank. This is just my impression from the outside. And I am not saying that is what the US military does but rather what it wants to do.

 

[robo-snickers]

thats about how much my hoes pay me each year

 

[El_Machinae]

I'm appreciating the discussion, but to answer the OP: remember that America has a LOT of bloat in its government. They absolutely don't get good value on the money they spend on their military.

Not that their military isn't awesome, but big numbers just don't translate like they do at the smaller numbers.

 

[Lotus49]

No offense but the lack of knowledge with regards to world currencies in recent posts is appalling. It's been well over 2 years btw... Then there's all this screwy talk about pegging to Euro, and panic ensues, etc. What?

 

[Integral]

I retract my statements regarding the yuan-dollar 'peg'. Appears I'm a bit behind the times.

-Integral [<--Not a monetary economist]

 

[neviden]

No offense but the lack of knowledge with regards to world currencies in recent posts is appalling. It's been well over 2 years btw... Then there's all this screwy talk about pegging to Euro, and panic ensues, etc. What?

None taken. It is gross simplification and it was only meant to show that $500 billion US military budget isn’t the only important thing there is. China has $1.4 trillion in official foreign exchange reserves (and growing) and that could potentially be used as a weapon or means of pressure if used corectly.

 

[JohnRM]

You can see it on wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_federations_by_military_expenditures

Its gigantic, no one else comes even vaguely close. Bigger than the next 20 put together IIRC. but I dont think many people would seriously contend that the US would win a (conventional, nuclear war involving russia or the US isnt winnable)war against those next 20 countries, or in fact againt the top 10 of them.

The United States could not win a war of conquest agaisnt Europe, but Europe could not win a war of conquest against the United States. Nor could the top 20 spenders, after the United States, win a war of conquest against us.

I'm no expert (far from it) on military expenditure, so what is the money going on? I know their IT and airpower is unsurpassed, as is their navy. but why, considering their outlay, arent they by a million miles stronger than everyone else put together?

American military spending is primarily focused on logistical capabilities. The United States can transport massive numbers of troops and equipment to just about any location on the planet, with short notice, within a week or less. That kind of capability is considered invaluable by the political elite and costs a lot of money. No other nation on this Earth can make react with force as quickly as the American military can.

Another thing that you fail to consider is that the United States owns the seas and the oceans. There are very bodies of water, on this planet, where the US Navy has any real competition whatsoever.

how come they cant even control Iraq, and are too militarily overstretched to invade Iran (I dont think they would want to anyway)?

We can control Iraq. What is keeping us from doing so is not a matter of how much we spend, but how much political pressure and lack of will on the part of the American people, the government, and foreign powers that would allow us to do what is necessary to take control of the situation.

Furthermore, Iran is not untouchable. We could take care of Iran in a heartbeat, but again, the political pressure and lack of will power prevents us from doing so. We don't need to invade Iran, but we would have to do things that we're not allowed to do, because of the crippling advent of the so-called "rules of war" which we are forced to follow, and no one else.

I'm not asking this rhetorically, or just having a dig at the US, I just dont undertsnad how if they are spending unimaginable amounts of money cant they complete some relatively straightforward military tasks? why do they NEED blackwater?

Private entities can do a job cheaper and more efficiently than any public entity. There are always exceptions to this rule, but most often, that is the case.

 

[JohnRM]

Another thing to consider is that like the Richter scale, when you go up one level in military technology, you're costs don't just go up by a set amount, the costs increase exponentially. The costs of maintaining high-tech weapons like the B-2 Spirit, the F-22, the M1A2 Abrams, and other weapons are very high.

 

[Ecofarm]

Does any other country have a tank that runs on jet fuel via turbines, or are all other tanks diesel and internal combustion?