US Out How? The Moral Dilemma of Leaving Iraq

[Damnyankee]

SO we replaced a dictator with another dictator. DO you think the 3,000+ military that died and the 300k+ civilians that died would be happy that they died for nothing?

Of course not, read my post again. However, it would be the only way for America to succeed in Iraq. Democracies do not last long in the mid east, except for Israel, and everyone hates it, go figure.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

My figuring leads me to believe it is not hated because it's a democracy.

 

[brennan]

My two coppers: as long as Iraq remains a Democracy (or anything vaguely resembling same) it will have a problem with terrorism. We're approximately at a point where the violence is comparable to, say, England vs. the IRA.

You're having a laugh BC. Iraq is a thousand times more violent than NI ever was.

 

[Damnyankee]

My figuring leads me to believe it is not hated because it's a democracy.

Never said it was. The hate would be there, but a brutal government would be able to stamp out dissent, to a certain extent. What we have now is American troops putting their fingers in the collective dike. The only way to win in Iraq is to have the government become a dictatorship, killing dissidents by the thousands, and having America there for handling big operations. Needless to say, I would rather withdraw then have this type of success.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I was just saying that Israel is not a case in point for: democracies do not last long in the mid east. And neither is Iraq.

Iran is a democracy and isn't loved in the West, go figure

 

[brennan]

Iran is a democracy

Cue flamefest...

 

[AL_DA_GREAT]

The USA can't get out. You are permanently screwed

 

[RedRalph]

Cue flamefest...

I wouldnt call it a democracy. but its a hell of a lot more democratic than Saudi Arabia, Kuwait etc.

 

[Xanikk999]

Maybe theres a moral dillemma with leaving, but staying there has shown that the country isnt improving overall and it certainly isnt improving our soldiers lives or our economy.

 

[mrt144]

sunk cost fallacy.

 

[Swedishguy]

The cost for the war this year is 300 million US dollars. The estimation was 30 million dollars.

 

[BasketCase]

I hate to burst your bubble because you sound that nothing the USA ever does is wrong but doesn't the USA always make excuses up for attacking countries? (How many times did it say "we need to attack because communism is bad!?")

I, on the other hand, LOVE to bust other peoples' bubbles, and am now going to hit your bubble with a tactical nuke.

Here's the whopper: the United States was once exactly where the Palestinians are now. We were subjected to religious persecution, fled our ancestral homeland, and were then subjected to a military occupation.

All sounds too familiar, don't it?

Do you see us Americans trying to reclaim our ancestral homelands in England and create the sovereign nation of Americastan? Committing suicide bombings against the British for their crimes against us? Nope.

We gave up on such things and made a life for ourselves somewhere else. And in return for our humility, we Americans were given dominion over the Earth.


Rather than complaining about the bad things we've done, people such as the Palestinians and Al-Qaeda should take us as an example. Quit beating on dead horses and get on with your lives.

 

[George2816]

Of course not, read my post again. However, it would be the only way for America to succeed in Iraq. Democracies do not last long in the mid east, except for Israel, and everyone hates it, go figure.

SO the lebenanon isn't a democracy?

Here's the whopper: the United States was once exactly where the Palestinians are now. We were subjected to religious persecution, fled our ancestral homeland, and were then subjected to a military occupation.

Wrong it would be more like scotland and england because they are close together

Do you see us Americans trying to reclaim our ancestral homelands in England and create the sovereign nation of Americastan? Committing suicide bombings against the British for their crimes against us? Nope.

No i don't see scotland reclaiming their home because england kill alot of them.

We gave up on such things and made a life for ourselves somewhere else. And in return for our humility, we Americans were given dominion over the Earth.

Scotland only gave up independence because england killed alot of them people. In this day and ago if another country killed alot of another countries civilians that certain country would be considering "axis of evil" (Unless of course its israel in which case every "christan" will try to claim that they are god's people so they can kill the "non-god's people" and "god" will still be happy!)

Rather than complaining about the bad things we've done, people such as the Palestinians and Al-Qaeda should take us as an example. Quit beating on dead horses and get on with your lives.

Sorry but if you ignore your past you are doomed to repeat it!~

 

[Che Guava]

I, on the other hand, LOVE to bust other peoples' bubbles, and am now going to hit your bubble with a tactical nuke.

Here's the whopper: the United States was once exactly where the Palestinians are now. We were subjected to religious persecution, fled our ancestral homeland, and were then subjected to a military occupation.

All sounds too familiar, don't it?

That is about the worst analogy of the situation I have ever heard. Besides a theme of religious persecution (which is really incidental anyhow, since the palestine/israel situation is more about race than religion..) there areno real similarities.

If you want a decent american version of palestine, look to the indigenous people of america. They lost thier land, were not represented in government, and were slowly but surely squeezed into smaller and smaller bit of marginal land. That sound familiar?

 

[RedRalph]

That is about the worst analogy of the situation I have ever heard. Besides a theme of religious persecution (which is really incidental anyhow, since the palestine/israel situation is more about race than religion..) there areno real similarities.

If you want a decent american version of palestine, look to the indigenous people of america. They lost thier land, were not represented in government, and were slowly but surely squeezed into smaller and smaller bit of marginal land. That sound familiar?

to be fair though, the Australian situation is just as close. Or even the one only a few miles up the road from me, albeit in a less extreme form

 

[BasketCase]

It like saying that terrorist attacks in Iraq (as it is now) because democratic iraq has never invaded anyone but that it is a democracy and no other reason whatsoever.

Then why were there no terrorist attacks against Iraq before Saddam was deposed.....? Iraq's many victims certainly had plenty of time to make reprisals against Saddam. Why didn't they? What changed about Iraq?

Yes, there were actually many reasons for people to want to attack Iraq--but for some reason, those people didn't take action until after Saddam was deposed.

Why?

 

[brainpan]

Does any body believe that maybe the US is prompting Turkey to invade Iraq from the North as part of their exit strategy.

I sure don't. Turkey's involvement is sure to destabilize the only region of Iraq that was somewhat functional.

 

[BasketCase]

That is about the worst analogy of the situation I have ever heard.

Why? What's actually wrong with it? You didn't give any real reasons. You just said it was a bad analogy without explaining why. I need the "why".

Our ancestral homeland is in England, is it not? Our ancestors were subjected to religious persecution, were they not? The British military committed countless atrocities against Colonial civilians, did they not? The answer to all three is "yes". (To your credit, you did answer "yes" to the second one, religious persecution)

Seems an entirely valid analogy to me. The difference between the U.S. and Palestine is in how we responded to it.

 

[Damnyankee]

SO the lebenanon isn't a democracy?

Wrong it would be more like scotland and england because they are close together

No i don't see scotland reclaiming their home because england kill alot of them.

Scotland only gave up independence because england killed alot of them people. In this day and ago if another country killed alot of another countries civilians that certain country would be considering "axis of evil" (Unless of course its israel in which case every "christan" will try to claim that they are god's people so they can kill the "non-god's people" and "god" will still be happy!)

Sorry but if you ignore your past you are doomed to repeat it!~

It is not on par with the stable liberal democracy that is Israel. If you have to use one of the most unstable regions of the world as an example of democracy, you might as well say Iraq is a democracy. Israel is a de facto Western Nation.

 

[Damnyankee]

That is about the worst analogy of the situation I have ever heard. Besides a theme of religious persecution (which is really incidental anyhow, since the palestine/israel situation is more about race than religion..) there areno real similarities.

If you want a decent american version of palestine, look to the indigenous people of america. They lost thier land, were not represented in government, and were slowly but surely squeezed into smaller and smaller bit of marginal land. That sound familiar?

I agree, that is a rather weak analogy. Now, if he had said the puritans of England were similar to the Palestinians and had to leave England for Freedom in America, that would have been an excellent analogy. Religious persecution in America was virtually non-existent compared to what is happening in the Mid East. Thats why they(puritans) came in the first place to America!