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[RD] US physical currency should be completely redesigned.

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by metatron, Nov 14, 2017.

  1. metatron

    metatron deplorable ally

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    Dear liberal Americans,
    walk with me here for a bit. And don't swallow that gum.

    In this post i will try to make the case that not only is the depiction of Ms. Tubman on the new 20$ bill not enough, not only may it not even be the best direction to go but most crucially it is not going to the root of the problem.
    The case here is that US physical currency has to be redesigned and replaced in its entirety and that it must be completely divorced from the so-called "founding fathers" in the end state that is to be achieved.

    I have tried to make the former parts of this case to American liberals on Fiftychat a couple of times, mostly focussing on changing the gender ratio of who's represented on the bills (rather than coins), since this was my primary interest at the time and focus of US media attention regarding the renewal of - originally - the 10$ bill.
    In these repeated conversations i made reference to Sweden purposefully adopting gender-equal paper currency in 2015 as well as the FRG doing so in 1992.
    Obviously, since my conversation partners were largely of such liberal persuasions there was little resistance regarding the basic premise.
    However, in every case, obstacles - surprisingly tenacious ones - quickly surfaced.
    For one, i had significant trouble to make people fully aware of how unusual the American set of Presidents on paper money actually is, and in multiple ways:
    • I had trouble to properly communicate how it was normal for other countries to have representatives of theretofore disadvantaged classes (say women or minorities) on money for achievements other than advocacy or activisim in favor of such a group's rights, heck, usually even achievements to which their class membership was irrelevant. I.e. artists or scientists who merely happened to be, say, women.
    • Then i usually struggled to establish how exclusively having political leaders/authorities on money is something that usually countries in either of the following categories do: Constitutional monarchies (think UK), banana republics, totalitarian dictatorships.
      In line with these two problems i couldn't help but show my amazement at how one Mr. Oliver apparently finds the notion of putting a female aviator on money ridiculous - obviously i can't help but find that... rather British.
    • Thirdly i encountered remarkable resistance to change, that, considering the politics of my audience, quite surprised me.
      There was significant attachment to even Grant to such a degree that apparently the only way to achieve what i was going for was to have 12 bills (most agreed with ditching Jackson).

    I usually advocated for employing either Mr. Douglass or Mr. Owens to feature on a bill while being black and suggested a variety of women for selection (this latter portion of my suggestions can very easily be greatly improved upon, as i must admit).

    Of course i couldn't help but bring up the curious case of the Canadian 50 dollar bill (in use ca. '01 to '12) featuring the Famous Five, and the fact that scientifically measured the Famous Five count for roughly five mysogynists, roughly seven misandrist, roughly eleven viscious classists, roughly four racists and roughly two accessories to racist democide. Which in my view was par for "first wave feminists" and a prime example of how not to do this women on money thing.
    Luckyly Harper in an uncharacteristic fit of good sense got them off the the new 50 dollar bill.
    This was relevant before things settled on Tubman because American "feminists" were making all sorts of proposals to put quite horrible women (by virtue of being equally typical "first wave feminists") on the 10$/20$ bill.

    Anywho. Over the course of these interactions the latter problem - attachment to the current set of faces, became increasingly more prominent in my thoughts on the subject and on the reactions that i got.
    I tried to make the case that this is important, for money - because it's mundane - arguably being more of a "doormat" of a country than flags or anthems.
    And i tried to emphasize this doormat effect in citing not a visitor but rather a first time user of another kind - the stereotypically least advantaged first time user among a country's own citizenry.
    Alas the mental image of some inner city African American girl from generational poverty making the first purchase of her life with the face of a slaveholder president seemed to not impress people - liberals at that - much at all.
    To be honest by late '15 i had sort of given up on making any headway with this whole argument.


    But somewhere between the debate on Confederate monuments and the debate on the Hollywood Casting Couch this year i'm getting a second wind on this. And i suppose i was approaching the whole thing backwards to begin with.
    Maybe what i thought of merely as an incidental good that would come about by necessity should be a primary objective in the first place.

    Since this has in its generality not been evocative enough (apparently), let me try to quickly assemble a high-octane McCase here:

    [McCase]

    • Data point #1:
      This spring i got into tiff with some political allies (let's be generous) over BLM related language. Subsequently i felt it was a good idea to fetch the list and cite the last person on it as evidence for a certain urgency arguably outweighing disputes over social justice language.
      Most of the people on the list are white men, despite minorities being overrepresented. By pure chance the last person on the list with a photograph to their name was - morbidly somewhat conveniencing me - not just African American but also female, young and summarily innocent.
      This was No. 273 a.k.a. Alteria Woods:
      Spoiler :


      This was also Alteria Woods:
      Spoiler :


      And this was Alteria Woods as well:
      Spoiler :


      Excuse the boredom i may be causing you here, but as usual it is required to show these images, cause on the news she looked like this:
      Spoiler :


      Since spring things have gotten slightly "clearer".
      Apparently Ms. Woods hasn't been pregnant after all. Apparently her boyfriend didn't use her as a human shield - at all. Apparently the cops turned her into a sieve largely incidentally.
      In case you are wondering:
      The grand jury has allready completely cleared the cops; the boyfriend will face a felony murder charge corresponding to her death in addition to his various other charges.

      Anyway, since we are allready familiar with Ms. Woods she may act as a user of your money for the purposes of this argument.
      Former user. Of course.

    • Data point #2:
      Donald L. Hollowell didn't "listen and believe". He casually waved Betty Jo Bishop's underwear about.
      In court.
      In front of the all-white jury.
      He won. That was in 1954.
      Until then, and in parts after then, this was normal; white women did this all the time.
      The reverse was worse, much worse. Many a progressive white-mans-burdening their way to the South heard the complaint in the same breath as labor injustices and police brutality:
      "Our women have no rights.
      White boys hunt them for sport."


    • Data point #3:
      Sally Hemings didn't even have to run. She was in Paris, which legally made her a free person.
      She went home anyway.
      "Home".
      Some media called her Jefferson's "mistress". She was 15, and his property. She was her "half-black" mother's former owner's daughter.
      I have to insist that you reread that last sentence.

      We know little about George Washington's sexuality with any certainty. All manner of theories about him being gay, him being impotent, him being sterile etc.
      And we have heard a lot about his "principles" vis a vis slavery. Actually we've heard annoyingly much on the subject.
      Allmost enough to obfuscate that he approved of various relationships with huge power distance on Mount Vernon.
      Allmost enough to obfuscate that he and his dudebros were running among other things, brutal sex slavery. Never mind the teeth.

      So, in summation: Ms. Woods was born, presumably in '96.
      As a child she bought, like, gum or whatever with nickels and quarters and dollars.
      Later thoughts like "Cleveland or rape", "Detroit or rape" would have appeared non-obvious to her by virtue of her late birth. Despite Florida.
      And even later her government sieved her. Emmentalered her. Pick a term of your choice.

    What Trump said on this point is not an outrageous exaggeration.
    You should "come after them" next.
    You actually should.

    I leave you with a piece of stock footage for the appropriate after-taste:

    Spoiler :

    [/McCase]

    Point being: Maybe we can all agree to tolerate atrocities like white women wearing hoop earings and instead decide that having rapey slaveowners on currency is Hate not Heritage.

    Thoughts?

    PS:
    Feel free to search for the Dollar Redesign Project, and for that matter various other suggestions people have come up with.


    PPS:
    On that other matter:
    You're at 1044 and it's not even December...

    PPPS:
    I have no idea how good of a human being Grant was. Please don't make find out. I'm sure it can't end well. Remember: The question is: "Can you not find an artist or scientist who's less problematic?"
     
  2. OldBoomer

    OldBoomer Chieftain

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    Sorry, but I think Ms. Tubman is a bad choice. I suggest replacing Andrew Jackson with a Transgendered Muslim person of color in the interest of gender neutrality and diversity.
     
  3. Zelig

    Zelig Beep Boop

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    Well, obviously.

    Even not counting form, from a functional perspective, American notes are clown currency. It fails at the basic functions of physical notes to the point where the design is cruel. Americans should be embarrassed.
     
    Traitorfish and Valessa like this.
  4. uppi

    uppi Chieftain

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    Why bother? The design of US banknotes lags behind the rest of the world by at least 50 years, anyway. You might as well reflect that in the choice of the faces on them.
     
  5. OldBoomer

    OldBoomer Chieftain

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    You know what they say about those who live in glass houses...



    Anyone feel like a game of monopoly?
     
  6. Valka D'Ur

    Valka D'Ur Hosting Iron Pen in A&E Retired Moderator

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    Okay, not a lot of the OP makes sense, as it seems to be simultaneously about who's on the money, BLM victims, and slavery.

    As for the Famous Five on Canadian money, the fact is that they weren't people I'd agree with on a lot of points... except one: Women's suffrage. I get to vote because of what THEY did. There is no way I would spit on the memory of any of the suffragettes and opt out of voting due to apathy, laziness, or whatever pathetic reason some Canadian women use to excuse not voting. They don't even have the "I don't have time" excuse, since they can vote at advance polls, by special mail-in ballot, by in-home special ballot if they're disabled (the way I do it, since dealing with polling stations is something I find problematic), or in person. And it's the LAW in Canada that your employer must give you 3 consecutive hours off work in order to vote, if you are at work during polling hours.

    Harper and the Reformacons represent a misogynist point of view that couldn't abide women on the money, or even acknowledging that Canadian women are patriotic. There was a bill to make the anthem gender-neutral by replacing two words that would make it inclusive of both male and female Canadians.

    The Reformacon senators refused to pass it. They voted against it, and so did their Parliamentary colleagues. My own MP, who is a Reformacon, opened his big mouth and proclaimed that he spoke for "everyone" in his constituency in saying there was no need to change the lyrics, that everyone here is okay with the current anthem. I emailed him to tell him to stop speaking for me, since I am NOT okay with it.

    I'm also not okay with the Reformacon Party's allergy to women on the money. Their supporters kept writing in to the CBC.ca comment boards, saying, "Well, the Queen is on the money and she's a woman, so why isn't that good enough?"

    The Queen is on the money because she's the current British monarch. When she dies, her image will be replaced by that of Charles. When he dies (assuming another 20 years or so down the road, as that's a long-lived family and assuming Canada still uses physical money by then), his image will be replaced by that of William. And then George. And then George's eldest child.

    And the Queen, while generally well-regarded here, is not Canadian. She wasn't born here.

    The rule here regarding putting people on the money is that they have to have been both Canadian, and dead for at least 25 years. So that lets out a lot of people, such as Roberta Bondar (our first female astronaut) and Kim Campbell (our first - and so far only - female Prime Minister).

    There was an online vote of female candidates for being on the money, and someone was finally chosen. I'm not sure if that will actually happen, if the next banknote design occurs after the next election. I think it's safe to say that if the Reformacons win in 2019, any plans to put women on the money will not be followed through. Harper's no longer officially leading that party (many are suspicious of how much backroom input he might still have), but his replacement is basically Harper 2.0.

    Yep. Canadian banknotes have Braille on them. Of course we don't need to worry about $1 bills since we haven't used them in over 30 years (since summer of 1987, when the loonie was introduced).

    Which goes to show that ours is more practical. It's easy to tell one from another by color, and one of the features they include is Braille.
     
  7. OldBoomer

    OldBoomer Chieftain

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    Something tells me Hasbro was thinking the exact same thing. Well, that and how to be as cruel as possible to blind people.
     
  8. Valka D'Ur

    Valka D'Ur Hosting Iron Pen in A&E Retired Moderator

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    Do many blind people play Monopoly?

    Braille and the large-print numerals, as well as the different colors (which of course were different colors since long before my time), make it much easier for visually-impaired people to use cash. Same thing with the coins; it's impossible to mistake one for another due to the different sizes, shapes, weights, and edges.
     
  9. Hygro

    Hygro soundcloud.com/hygro/

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    If I was blind I would use a debit card....

    Kind of like how I do now.
     
  10. OldBoomer

    OldBoomer Chieftain

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    Not many since Hasbro's a company that's filled with cruel jerks.

    It's a real shame that they did away with such fine $1 and $2 dollar bills. I remember those. Now those looked like real money (the original 2's anyway) and to think they did away with such fine notes for that ridiculous moose coin they call a toonie, loonie or whatever.
     
  11. Terxpahseyton

    Terxpahseyton Master of Nothing and Everything

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    So if by chance those "Famous Five" were never born, you think Canadian women could not vote today, in the year of 2017?
    I respect your respect for this achievement and the importance it has to you.
    Still... you even used cursive. That sealed the deal, I had to say it. Don't hate me. (Or do, maybe I'd like it)
     
  12. metatron

    metatron deplorable ally

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    Not unless they built a time machine.
    That ain't Braille.

    Which is probably for the better, cause i have this faint suspicion that blind people in, say, Nunavut don't know Braille.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017
  13. Zkribbler

    Zkribbler Chieftain

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    color, Braille & SIZE. :thumbsup:

    Also have you seen the dime?? Nowhere does it say ten cents. How's a foreigner supposed to ascertain how much it's worth?

    Several years ago, a federal district court rule US currency violated anti-discrimination laws vis-a-vis blind people, However an appellate court threw out the ruling.:(
     
  14. Valka D'Ur

    Valka D'Ur Hosting Iron Pen in A&E Retired Moderator

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    :rolleyes:

    If you're going to be insulting, at least get your facts straight. We don't have moose on our money. The loonie has a loon on it. That's why we call it a loonie.

    Toonies are called that because it rhymes with "loonies" and because they're the $2 coin. The actual imagery on it has the Queen on one side and a polar bear on the other.
     
  15. GoodSarmatian

    GoodSarmatian A mad God's dying dream

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    Or, you know, just stop depicting people on money and use buildings, landmarks and symbols instead like on Euro notes.

    Also, dear Netherlands and Spain, please take your monarchs off your Euro coins. It's antiquated and silly.
     
  16. metatron

    metatron deplorable ally

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    Originally that was a tangential complaint of mine:
    I actually think that this landmark thing is a really bad idea. When i began interviewing people about this the Euro crisis was still fresh on everybodies mind.
    And i was, and arguably am, convinced that if we had common money with Europeans on them - one set for everybody - there might have been more conciliatory language and behavior on both sides.

    Like, just imagine for a moment there were actual people on Euro bills!
    I don't know. Plato or something.
    You could go even bigger with scenes. Mary of Burgundy granting the Great Privilege and stuff like that.
    There's all sorts of fun to be had. And you want to go with fake bridges? Really?

    Obviously this would be tricky for lack of however many pieces of currency.
    But, yeah, i really dislike those damn bridges...
    I tend to agree.
    We have that dumb bird though.
    Not the oak leaves, not the gardening (not) nude model, nope: Stupid thrice dead imperial bird.
    So that's... yeah, ok... that's still barely better. But it sucks too.

    Come to think of it we could get rid of the damn bird in general.
    Remove bird. Insert meaningful symbolism.
    Profit.
    I mean the (not) nude lady told you something about the place:
    "Eat your peas because kids in Africa! Also: Why is there straw?"
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2017
  17. Arwon

    Arwon Show me your moves

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    What's the rationale for the Euro notes all featuring one design instead of a variety?
     
  18. Broken_Erika

    Broken_Erika Neurotic Panda

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    What about an assortment of nuts and fruits?:mischief:
     
  19. Evie

    Evie Pronounced like Eevee

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    Pst, Valka, he means the quarter.

    But he's still wrong, that's a caribou, not a moose.
     
  20. Valka D'Ur

    Valka D'Ur Hosting Iron Pen in A&E Retired Moderator

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