US soldier killed by German Police

Thorbal

not enough ram!
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U.S. Soldier Killed by German Police

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By NICHOLAS KULISH
Published: March 15, 2008

BERLIN — German police shot and killed a United States Army soldier in Bavaria after he took a former girlfriend hostage, the local police said Friday.

According to the police, the 30-year-old soldier, armed with a military-issue M-4 assault rifle, broke into the German woman’s apartment on the outskirts of the town of Altershausen on Thursday night. He tied her up, but she still managed to escape and notify the police.

Officers then sealed off the area around the apartment building and brought in a SWAT team to deal with the armed suspect. Police found the soldier, who was still in the vicinity, shortly after 11 p.m., using a helicopter with a thermal camera.

When police officers attempted to arrest him, the soldier threatened them with his gun, leading them to open fire, according to an official statement released by the Unterfranken district police.

“He was asked in English not to move and all this, but he didn’t do it,” said Karl-Heinz Schmitt, the police press spokesman, in a telephone interview on Friday.

The soldier was taken to a hospital early Friday morning. It was unclear whether he had been shot once or multiple times. An autopsy is scheduled to be performed on Monday.

The soldier belonged to the 2nd Brigade, 1st Infantry Division, known as the “Dagger” Brigade, according to an Army news release. His name was not made public, pending notification of his family.

It was not immediately clear whether the soldier had served in Iraq, but his brigade has been deployed there twice, with the last troops returning from the most recent deployment on Nov. 27.

There are approximately 45,000 American soldiers based in Germany right now.

Mr. Schmitt of the Unterfranken police said that the soldier had permission to use the weapon earlier on Thursday, and simply did not return it.

The Army said in a news release that it “takes incidents of this nature extremely seriously and will continue to work with the German authorities to maintain community safety.” Beyond that, it withheld comment.

“It’s still very much under investigation, and it’s too early,” said Bruce Anderson, an. Army spokesman in Heidelberg.

From the NYTimes

What do you think of this? Was shooting the soldier justified? Should US authorities (military police or something) in the area have been notified to take care of the issue? Will this result in diplomatic troubles or is everything "fine"?
 
Nuke Germany!
 
Looks like everything was done properly. German police taking care of a lunatic armed with an assault weapon.
 
Don't really see any other course of action open to them. If a crazy guy waving a automatic weapon at you and threatening to kill people you do whatever you can to stop him.

The people screaming "Nuke Germany" or whatever over this are, frankly, mentally deficient. What should the police have done? Let him kill a bunch of people first?
 
The incident took place on german soil, and that makes it the business of german police. I also think it could have been silly to let the US army to deal with that problem, because it concerned kidnapping a civilian.

@Hundegesicht:
I bet Bill3000 posted first and read later (I wonder if he even did read).
 
The incident took place on german soil, and that makes it the business of german police. I also think it could have been silly to let the US army to deal with that problem, because it concerned kidnapping a civilian.

who suggested letting the us army deal with it in the first place?
apart from the fact that this idea is so completely nuts that i wouldnt waste time to consider it...

edit: should read the OP, not only article...
 
Deport all the imperialists back to the USA. Aren't there rules banning soldiers from bringing their weapons home?

Yes - apparently he didn't return it upon leaving, and they failed to catch it in time.

edit: @aaglo, yeah, but there're bound to be 2 or 3 more like it, so I figured I'd get it said early on.
 
The incident took place on german soil, and that makes it the business of german police. I also think it could have been silly to let the US army to deal with that problem, because it concerned kidnapping a civilian.

I see. I was just about to ask which rules US personnel are bound to when stationed abroad. So they are subject to German law, at least partially?
 
who suggested letting the us army deal with it in the first place?
apart from the fact that this idea is so completely nuts that i wouldnt waste time to consider it...

Did you even read the first post?

completely?

EDIT: I guess you did now :p
 
Isn't the US army needed elsewhere at the moment?
 
If you read the article Al, you'd be able to infer that those rules probably do exist. The Army specifically said that he didn't return his service weapon.

My only real concern is this...

“He was asked in English not to move and all this, but he didn’t do it,” said Karl-Heinz Schmitt, the police press spokesman, in a telephone interview on Friday.

I understand that English isn't his first language, but "Dude...like...we told him not to move "AND ALL THIS", but he didn't do it...", doesn't sound like a cop or an effective spokesman.

Otherwise everything seems fine. This was a criminal matter and didn't become the business of the US army or government until the suspect was apprehended, killed, or if the German police wanted it to be the US Army's business.
 
Pretty much what would have happened anywhere else. A man with a gun taking someone hostage. I mean what else could have been done? You can't get close enough for a taser and even with a taser, his spasming muscles could accidentally pull the trigger and fire a bullet into someone else.
 
I understand that English isn't his first language, but "Dude...like...we told him not to move "AND ALL THIS", but he didn't do it...", doesn't sound like a cop or an effective spokesman.

Eh, if you're in any country, regardless of what language you speak and, and someone dressed up in a uniform pointing a gun at you yells "halt!" or "stop!" or whatever - even if you don't understand the language, you damn well understand that you DON'T MOVE. That's pretty basic. No cop is ever going to yell "you there! Yeah, the one with the automatic rifle! Wave your arms in a threatening manner please!"
 
I understand that English isn't his first language, but "Dude...like...we told him not to move "AND ALL THIS", but he didn't do it...", doesn't sound like a cop or an effective spokesman.

Otherwise everything seems fine. This was a criminal matter and didn't become the business of the US army or government until the suspect was apprehended, killed, or if the German police wanted it to be the US Army's business.

:lol:That was one of the first things I noticed, as well. That´s SO German-Police-Like. One of the best TV-documentaries of the last years was when the policemen got crash courses in English to properly communicate with all the guests for the World Cup in 2006 and... honestly... it was horrible ;). I don´t know why, most people over here younger than 50-60 can speak decent English, but somehow, the police is excluded.
 
Somehow I don't think Bill was being 100% serious.

Police did their job. Is this even worth a thread?
 
Somehow I don't think Bill was being 100% serious.

Police did their job. Is this even worth a thread?

Well, as I said earlier, I was unsure if this matter was handled correctly. And besides that, I wanted to share some news which I thought might interest people ;).
 
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