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US Vice Presidential Debate: Who won?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by CivCube, Oct 5, 2004.

?

Who won this one?

  1. I'm Republican, and I think Cheney won.

    21 vote(s)
    21.4%
  2. I'm Democrat, and I think Edwards won.

    10 vote(s)
    10.2%
  3. I'm Republican, and I think Edwards won.

    2 vote(s)
    2.0%
  4. I'm Democrat, and I think Cheney won.

    7 vote(s)
    7.1%
  5. I'm neither, and I think Cheney won.

    13 vote(s)
    13.3%
  6. I'm neither, and I think Edwards won.

    10 vote(s)
    10.2%
  7. I'm not American or able to vote, but Cheney won.

    8 vote(s)
    8.2%
  8. I'm not American or able to vote, but Edwards won.

    8 vote(s)
    8.2%
  9. I'm undecided.

    19 vote(s)
    19.4%
  1. AVN

    AVN Deity

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    I wonder why people call it a debate. IMHO the two candidates were holding monologues on certain issues and often they even didn't try to answer the questions of the moderator. Unfortunately the moderator didn't interfere when the candidates went off-topic.

    IMO Cheney did this more than Edwards, he even refused to do a rebuttal several times or he said that he had not enough time to do a rebuttal (which is almost the same for me, although I know that a rebuttal time of 30 seconds isn't much). For that reason and because Edwards argued his points much better I think Edwards won this monologue contest.
     
  2. test_specimen

    test_specimen hope lost

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    avn is right about the monologue thing, but US politics re-define language in many ways.

    Again I haven't seen the discussion, but from the transcript Cheney seemed to have been quite good, he should probably be the one facing Kerry for an even match. It's been quite some time since I've seen a republican on TV formulating a sentence that makes sense (at least in his world). Unfortunately Cheney stuck to the old "9/11" - "global war on terror" brand-name mantra. Funny that he stuck to the 9/11-Saddam connection even after Rumsfeld admitted that there is no evidence for that.

    Edwards was also quite good and responded adequately. He could not slam Cheney or paint him as the evil emperor, but what possible answer can you give to things that have already been exposed as lies about 50 times before?

    FOX has a surprisingly even factcheck:
    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,134580,00.html

    (btw there is also an explanation for the "global test")

    edit: forgive me for posting this again:
    http://home.earthlink.net/~houval/gopconstrm.mov
    <--- Republican speech-campaign strategy (see if you can spot Arnie :))
     
  3. MarineCorps

    MarineCorps Explosion!

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    It's not a supprise that Cheny won. He is the brains behind the president. Through I was rather wishing he would blow up and get angry at some point. :( BTW I heard that the Senator who Cheny told him to go do something to himself was in the front row and when the democrats were asked about that they said they thought it would be nice for cheny to have a frimiliar face in the crowd :lol:
     
  4. IglooDude

    IglooDude Enforcing Rule 34 Retired Moderator Supporter

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    I only saw the first third of the debate again :( and I thought it was fairly even, perhaps slightly toward Cheney. Cheney's citing of El Salvador was very effective, Edwards dodged the "global test" question for at least as long as I was watching, and both of them sort of ground each other down on the facts ("He's wrong!" "No, he's wrong!" "No, really, he's wrong!"...). I wish one or the other of them would have cited at least a few of the weapons systems that Kerry/Cheney opposed.

    Cheney didn't come across nearly as ogre-ish as I thought he would, and Edwards didn't show me as much of the witness examination skills as I thought he would.
     
  5. Free Enterprise

    Free Enterprise The return stroke.

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    I will say that I think Cheney won. He did in fact frequently argue (successfully) against certain (substantial quantity of) information of a factual nature that Edwards stated.

    Edwards was perhaps better than Kerry though. If Cheney had debated Kerry that would have been interesting.

    The thing that I find odd is that Cheney basically ignored the outsourcing issue. One would think that a Republican would and could rend into such a position as that held by Edwards. If he would have argued for free trade he could have obliterated such protectionistic tendencies and revealed the flaw in claiming that protectionism will help the economy of the United States.

    I tend to agree with this. Although perhaps one should be careful to measure the victory to actual proportion to be balanced; Cheney must have won the debate if a poll on CFC has more voters for him than Edwards. Winning here would be one of the tougher challenges a candidate such as Cheney could face.
     
  6. luiz

    luiz Trendy Revolutionary

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    20,544
    I think Cheney won, though his low tone creates an image of insecurity that is very harmful in a debate.

    I thought that Edwards would win, beign a succesful lawyer and all, but he was surprisingly lousy in the debate.
     
  7. Little Raven

    Little Raven On Walkabout

    Joined:
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    Close enough to call a tie. I really don't see where all of these "Cheney raped Edwards" statements are coming from. Cheney was a tough nut, and Edwards didn't crack him, but Edwards didn't slip either. What we saw were two master debators with a huge number of facts at their disposal. Good debate. Both men got some shots in, both men missed a few obvious ones, and neither scored a home run.

    My prediction is that this won't change much of anything.

    EDIT: Now this is interesting.
    Code:
    Who Won? (Among Debate Viewers)
    Cheney   43%  
    Edwards  35  
    Tie      19
    Code:
    Vote Preference Among Debate Viewers       Before the debate    After the debate 
    Bush/Cheney                              51%                      50 
    Kerry/Edwards                            48                       49 
    So Cheney gets a slight edge in victory, but his ticket actually loses support...
     
  8. El Justo

    El Justo Deity

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    cheney. no doubt about it. for anyone who feels differently, i ask you this:

    what on God's green earth were you watching if you thought edwards outdid the old man?

    let's be impartial here for a minute.
     
  9. Desert Fox

    Desert Fox Fleet Admiral

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    Nah Edwards won clearly to me.. It was more of the same stuff from Cheney discredit them because he has nothing to run on. It is about time they were both sent back to where ever they come from. I am an independent voter and support Kerry/Edwards ticket.

    Cheney did better then Bush did he was pathetic.. I am tired of the lies and disinformation coming from this white house worst one I have seen in my 49 years of life.
     
  10. Syterion

    Syterion Voodoo Economist

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    I think that everybody thinks that Cheney did well because compared to the President, he did well. Really though, it was an even debate, but Cheney was sucessful at arguing the tougher topics.

    And some of the questions were stupid and slanted, too much about the past and not enough about the issues.
     
  11. HighlandWarrior

    HighlandWarrior Mr Political Analyser

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    it was an even debate but cheney was sucessful at arguing the tougher topics? that makes no sense. Cheney dominated.

    Desert, you cannot be serious unless you're subtracting the 8 years of slick willie from a total of 57 years.
     
  12. Norlamand

    Norlamand Procrastinator Rex

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    VP Cheney won hands down. His answers were pithy, clear, concise and very much on target. Edwards looked and acted like a used car salesman trying desperately to sell a lemon from his lot.
     
  13. Desert Fox

    Desert Fox Fleet Admiral

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    I will go along with a tie but no way did Cheney win. I did my investigation a long time ago. Cheney is not an honest person look at how he said he never met John before. Yet he knew very well he met him about 4 times before. It is just another lie in my eyes.

    Slick Willie is why I am no longer a Democrat I switched in 96. Edwards actually brought up some good points. He did a very good job at what he was supposed to do. Deflect attacks against Kerry. This is all about who has the better campaign message now not about who is the better person. Bush family gives me the creeps the history on them show they are nothing but greedy con artists making cash off from every major war we have had in this country since ww1. :)

    That is only my opinion though the Bush family history is on the Internet anyone can look it up and see the real agenda. Iron Triangle ever read that book? :D I would vote GOP if there was a good one running there simply is not.
     
  14. El Justo

    El Justo Deity

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    well said norlamand.

    edwards was acting as if he was in a court room. his manner seemed to be that of one an attorney trying to convince a jury; and an unconvincing argument it was.
     
  15. Free Enterprise

    Free Enterprise The return stroke.

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    What about for the Congressional races? Are those candidates included in the statement?
     
  16. EdwardTking

    EdwardTking Deity

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    I only watched the first 35 minutes before I fell asleep (late here in England).

    I tend to support Kerry/Edwards, but i think that Cheney was clearly well ahead.

    Cheney projected himself well as the knowledgably kindly grandfatherly type,
    but also someone who would slyly and tenaciously fight for what he believed in.
    While Edwards came across as an aggressive testosterone fueled pup carefully
    remembering to recite the points his campaign team had told him to.

    I tend to agree that Cheney is the brains behind Bush.
     
  17. thestonesfan

    thestonesfan A Client of Ron Kuby

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    We all came away winners!
     
  18. Pointlessness

    Pointlessness Prince

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    I actually thought it was pretty close. If I had to decide, I would say Cheney won by a small margin, but Edwards did not get completely torn apart. In any case, both vice presidential candidates did better than their respective presdential candidates, with Edwards doing slightly better than Kerry and Cheney doing way better than that repetitive stutterer, Bush.
     
  19. dgfred

    dgfred Sports Freak

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    As D P has been known to say= 'Group Hug' :D :love:
     
  20. Theige

    Theige American Baron

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    Well, seeing as how Cheney's biggest line of the night was a lie ... yea :rolleyes:
     

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