US warns Israel over 'separation'

[G-Man]

Originally posted by Marla_Singer
How can we support a Wall solution ? I'm sorry but Sarevok is right in here. A Wall is not a Peace, it's just increasing even more tensions.

There will be peace. Not because they would stop trying to kill us, but simply because they won't be able to do so.

Originally posted by Marla_Singer
1- You seem to not care about the economical links between both people. Palestine is poor and devastated. People can't survive if they are isolated from Israel. On the Eastern border, it's only the desert (Actually, a large part of west bank is already desert).

Which is why we tried to reach an agreement. Sorry, the f*cked things up, now they'll face the consequences. Maybe Arafat can tell them where all their money is.

Originally posted by Marla_Singer
2- I'm sorry to say so but France and Germany didn't build their peace with a Wall between them. Such a solution will never work. It increases hatred instead of reducing it.

France and Germany built their peace on the destruction of Germany and the replacement of its leadership, in the most terrible war in history.
And I don't see how it'll increase hatred.

Originally posted by Marla_Singer
3- The direct effect of that Wall will be to humiliate the Fatah and to prove the Hamas was right. Which means that this wall proves the only hope for Palestinians is in terrorism. It's totally counter-productive. If you consider the Fatah as bad as the Hamas, just think about who did the Geneva plan...

The hamas gains its power from commiting suicide bombings. The wall will eliminate its ability to carry them out, and will therefore weaken it.

Originally posted by Marla_Singer
4- A Wall may be built as a protection, it is still a Wall, and its purpose is still to separate people.

No seriously, build your wall if you want to convince muslims from all over the world that palestinians are truely persecuted and that the guys who always told it, the fundamentalists, are right.

I don't see how the wall will cause people to feel persecuted or how it'll proove the radicals to be right. Especially when the only alternative for the wall is IDF actions. Someone needs to stop the terrorists, and the Palestinians aren't mature enough to be that someone.

 

[Andrewz]

G-Man. Why are you lying to yourself ? You don't want peace. You want to win a war.

Once you'll have won. Once you'll have humiliated the Palestinians. Once they'll be even more poorer. What do you think they'll do ? You think they'll just say : "Okay, you've won, I'll move to Cairo" ? That's not what Germany did after being humiliated in 1919.

 

[G-Man]

Originally posted by Andrewz
G-Man. Why are you lying to yourself ? You don't want peace. You want to win a war.

I'm not lying to anyone. I want peace. Had I wanted to win the war I'd support sending the IDF in, not out.

Originally posted by Andrewz
Once you'll have won. Once you'll have humiliated the Palestinians. Once they'll be even more poorer. What do you think they'll do ? You think they'll just say : "Okay, you've won, I'll move to Cairo" ? That's not what Germany did after being humiliated in 1919.

Oh dear, you mean they might actually try to kill us?
As I said, I gave up trying to convince them to stop terrorism. The Palestinian leadership won't fight the terrorists and the terrorists won't stop as long as Israel exists. So it's up to Israel to defend its citizens.

 

[Enemy Ace]

Originally posted by HannibalBarka

The Only internationally recognized borders for Israel are the one pre 1967 war. So this this wall is more like The US building one south of the Rio Grande.

This is like saying Taiwan is not an sovereign nation because no one recognizes them. I'm sure both they and the Israelis are content with that assessment, because on the ground, where it counts, they are king.

Also, I would support a counter-offensive into Mexico.

 

[Andrewz]

Oh dear, you mean they might actually try to kill us?
As I said, I gave up trying to convince them to stop terrorism. The Palestinian leadership won't fight the terrorists and the terrorists won't stop as long as Israel exists. So it's up to Israel to defend its citizens.

Oh yes, roll your eyes !
Humilitation never solved anything. Once the arabs will get the nuclear weapon (cause they will sooner or later), you'll face 400 million people declaring war on you. And that will be funny.

 

[Enemy Ace]

G-Man:

There are two solutions to this matter.

1) Build the wall and defend it. Then, either say "here is your land, don't call me anymore", or you could continue to try to work out a deal. However, the Palestinians do not want to compromise, so I doubt the second option is practical.

2) Form the armies of Israel and kill every living thing in the "occupied territories".

Perhaps, given these two solutions, they may change their minds. It would be a shame to have to go Hitler on these people, but if that is the only way to prevent the slaughter of your own people, I'm all for it.

Or maybe we should try the wall, first?!

Diplomacy will not work.

 

[G-Man]

Originally posted by Andrewz
Oh yes, roll your eyes !
Humilitation never solved anything. Once the arabs will get the nuclear weapon (cause they will sooner or later), you'll face 400 million people declaring war on you. And that will be funny.

1. Humiliation will exist anyway. Israel is stronger and it'll use this strengh to stop the terrorists. Any such use of force will remind the Palestinians that they're weaker and will therefore humiliate them.
2. Israel already has the arrow, and by the time the arabs will get a nuke the Israeli and American energy weapons will probably be ready as well.
3. Israel has a nuclear arsenal of its own.
4. The Palestinians are incapable of getting a nuke
5. Even if the Palestinians will get a nuke, the distances are too small for them to use it on Israel.

 

[G-Man]

Originally posted by Enemy Ace
G-Man:

There are two solutions to this matter.

1) Build the wall and defend it. Then, either say "here is your land, don't call me anymore", or you could continue to try to work out a deal. However, the Palestinians do not want to compromise, so I doubt the second option is practical.

2) Form the armies of Israel and kill every living thing in the "occupied territories".

Perhaps, given these two solutions, they may change their minds. It would be a shame to have to go Hitler on these people, but if that is the only way to prevent the slaughter of your own people, I'm all for it.

Or maybe we should try the wall, first?!

Diplomacy will not work.

Israel won't go "hitler" on anyone, no matter what the situation is.

 

[Enemy Ace]

Originally posted by Andrewz
Oh yes, roll your eyes !
Humilitation never solved anything. Once the arabs will get the nuclear weapon (cause they will sooner or later), you'll face 400 million people declaring war on you. And that will be funny.

What 400 million people?!

I would also like to remind you how the Israelis handled the situation with Iraq. France sold and built a nuclear reactor for Iraq and the Israelis bombed the hell out of it. The Arabs better get nukes from N. Korea, Russia, or some former-Soviet Republic, else they won't have one. The Israeli intelligence agency is the best in the world (IMO) and if they find out (and they will) that the Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Syria, etc are developing nuclear weapons, they will surely bomb them, too.

Besides, any nuclear conflict with Israel will surely result in the United States becoming involved on the side of the Israelis. So, unless the Arab nations want to commit suicide, I don't think a nuclear attack will come.

 

[Enemy Ace]

Originally posted by G-Man


Israel won't go "hitler" on anyone, no matter what the situation is.

Really?

Hypothetical situation: Hamas attacks Tel-Aviv with a chemical or radioactive bomb. You're telling me that you would not roll into the "occupied territories" and wipe them out?

 

[G-Man]

Originally posted by Enemy Ace


Really?

Hypothetical situation: Hamas attacks Tel-Aviv with a chemical or radioactive bomb. You're telling me that you would not roll into the "occupied territories" and wipe them out?

Only if by "them" you mean the hamas and the PA.

 

[Andrewz]

Arabs already have uranium in Algeria...
Pakistan is already a muslim nuclear power where fundamentalists are already controlling the Army and the Intelligence.

 

[HannibalBarka]

Originally posted by Enemy Ace

....
2) Form the armies of Israel and kill every living thing in the "occupied territories".

...It would be a shame to have to go Hitler on these people, but if that is the only way to prevent the slaughter of your own people, I'm all for it.

Or maybe we should try the wall, first?!
Diplomacy will not work.

Enemy Ace, did Jesus teach you that ?

 

[Tassadar]

Originally posted by G-Man


3. Israel has a nuclear arsenal of its own.
4. The Palestinians are incapable of getting a nuke
5. Even if the Palestinians will get a nuke, the distances are too small for them to use it on Israel.

Distance too small It will be '' the mother of all suicide bomber" of all time.

Insteed of barely surviving under israel economic struggle for ever, they will blow everything, themself include. Arrow system wont work against that.

And, islamic revolution is pretty close in Pakistan and they got nukes.

 

[G-Man]

Originally posted by Andrewz
Arabs already have uranium in Algeria...
Pakistan is already a muslim nuclear power where fundamentalists are already controlling the Army and the Intelligence.

So? Algeria isn't capable and isn't interested in using this uranium for nukes, Pakistan has already prooven that it won't attack another nuclear power with its own nukes and neither country has a very hostile relationship with Israel. Why would they, or any arab country, attack Israel?

 

[Enemy Ace]

Originally posted by Andrewz
Arabs already have uranium in Algeria...
Pakistan is already a muslim nuclear power where fundamentalists are already controlling the Army and the Intelligence.

Wow, that is real intelligent! Congradulations!

By "Arabs" the author obviously meant the regional arab nations such as Syria, Egypt, etc. However, I find it difficult to believe Algeria wants anything to do with a nuclear attack on Israel. As for Pakistan, are you serious? They are not about to involve themselves in that kind of mess. They have to worry about India.

The facts are facts, but the reality of the situation precludes them from practical application thereof.

 

[HannibalBarka]

Originally posted by G-Man

Which is why we tried to reach an agreement. Sorry, the f*cked things up, now they'll face the consequences. Maybe Arafat can tell them where all their money is.

Yeah right, it's all their fault, the same old propaganda: "we kindly offered them peace and land, but they didn't accept, there is noone to make peace with, blablabla ....."
And I didn't know you care about what Arafat do with their money? What is Sharon and his son doing with yours ?

 

[G-Man]

Originally posted by Tassadar

Distance too small It will be '' the mother of all suicide bomber" of all time.

Insteed of barely surviving under israel economic struggle for ever, they will blow everything, themself include. Arrow system wont work against that.

That would be against the terrorists' ideology and thus it won't happen. Also, I still don't see how will they get a nuke.

Originally posted by Tassadar
And, islamic revolution is pretty close in Pakistan and they got nukes.

I see no Islamic revolutiopnt there in the near future. They're incapable of reaching Israel, and in any case I see no reason for them to get involved in the conflict.

 

[Tassadar]

Originally posted by Enemy Ace


They are not about to involve themselves in that kind of mess. They have to worry about India.

They just have to erase '' made in pakistan" before given one to al-quaida and they will do ''the mother of all suicide bombing". Who will be able to know from where it come ? Iran ? Pakistan? or maybe an old forgoten russian one which have been sold ?

the way it is going right now, it is ineluctable that a major ''event" will happen, it is just a matter of time.

 

[Andrewz]

Originally posted by G-Man

So? Algeria isn't capable and isn't interested in using this uranium for nukes, Pakistan has already prooven that it won't attack another nuclear power with its own nukes and neither country has a very hostile relationship with Israel. Why would they, or any arab country, attack Israel?

Simply because guys like you despise arabs. Just hear yourself "arabs are incompetent", "algerians aren't capable", etc... You're under-estimating your enemy and that's the best way to see the worst happen.

You say you have good relations with muslim countries... but once your evil plan on Palestine will occur, do you think you'll keep such good relations ? What if an islamic revolution occur in Pakistan ? What if Al-Qaeda steals some nuclear heads thanx to some of their pakistani friends ? You know nothing about the future !

You don't want peace. You want to win a war against an ennemy you don't hate less than he actually hates you. You just count israelis being murdered, you don't count palestinians being murdered, and saying they are responsible on the first place isn't better than a kid saying his brother started the first. When terrorists attack Israel, your answer is on Palestine as a whole. And after that, you keep saying Israel isn't a threat to world's peace ! I truely can't believe it.