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USA and China Vrs. World! (in a "fair war")

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Eukaryote, Jun 19, 2008.

?

So who would win this crazy war?

  1. United States and China.

    47.4%
  2. The world

    52.6%
  1. Patroklos

    Patroklos Deity

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    I find it a little bit funny that a citizen of Western Europe would talk to anyone about being pampered.

    There is no reason to believe the US economy would be any more greatly effected than anyone elses. In fact, with undisputed access to what is even to this day the mostly unexploited resources of all of North America, at least war footing wise we are far better off than most of our enemies (scenario).

    Did France do this when the German's came through? I am not sure what the cause of this war is, but nothing in the OP hints anything at this being an all or nothing/fight to the last man/murder my children before getting captured ordeal.

    You realize where the border of China is in relation to that map right?
     
  2. Patroklos

    Patroklos Deity

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    Excuse me? I am not sure who you are refuring to with "BG," but you are obviously misinformed.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Afghanistan_(2001–present)

    United States - 19,950
    United Kingdom - 8,745
    Germany - 3,600

    Canada - 2,830
    France 2,785
    Italy - 2,350
    Netherlands - 1,770
    Poland - 1,600
    Australia - 1,090

    Turkey - 860
    Spain - 780
    Romania - 740
    Denmark - 700
    Norway - 588
    Belgium - 550


    Personally, I hope WWIII never becomes reality, you are welcome to your own opinion though.

    Do you know how those African resources get to Europe? Hint: it isn't by train or carrier pigeon.

    Your hiliarious insinuation that Africa will be contributing any forces of note aside, do you know how much time it takes to build a 5th generation aircraft? How about a ship?

    Who said anything about destroying harbors?

    Actually, I am pretty sure it is the European militaries would be the ones laughing at the capabilities attributed to them.
     
  3. Aegis

    Aegis Deity

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    Oh, an African Swallow, sure, but not a European Swallow!
     
  4. AceChilla

    AceChilla Goedheiligman

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    Allright, indeed USA will have the resources of Canada and Mexico without any mayor hitch. So I guess USA's oil suplly will be at a limit at which it has no big problems fighting a world war certainly taking the rationization of private sector use of oil into account.

    I don't think it makes sense of talking about economy anymore in such a situation since world trade will have come to a stop anyway and that effect will have massive unforseeable consequences anyway.

    China however does have does problems and there is no way China will have the resources available to fight such a war. They will have to get to Russian field or the oilfield in the Caucasus first both will be not be won over in any short period of time.

    I guess that take's China out of the game and makes it a USA vs. World war which ultimatly will be won by the world.
     
  5. Fifty

    Fifty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Everyone everywhere would die in shock at witnessing Israel and the Arab nations cooperate against a common foe. Devoid of human life, mother nature would take back the earth.
     
  6. Fayadi

    Fayadi Technocrat

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    China could invade Central Asia and then Iran as first part of the campaign. Central Asia + Iran is enough to provide oil for most of China's military campaign.
     
  7. Dachs

    Dachs Hero of the Soviet Union

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    China hasn't got the logistical oomph to do the 'stans plus Iran in one bound. They probably would have issues occupying the entirety of the 'stans alone IMHO. The obvious offensive into Siberia and advances into Indochina and India would suck up a lot of extra stuff too.

    If China wants oil, she goes south, for the Spratlies and the Indonesian archipelago.
     
  8. aelf

    aelf Ashen One

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  9. AceChilla

    AceChilla Goedheiligman

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    China will not able to attack, hold, occupy and exploit the Caucasus or Iran while fighting Russia, India, Pakistan, Japan and all their European and South East asian allies.

    Neither will they get a hold on Russian oil field. So that will basically stop China from fighting a succesfull war in this scenario.
     
  10. Patroklos

    Patroklos Deity

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    Striking into Siberia is not to get itself oil, but rather to deny oil and quite a few other resources to Russia/Europe.

    Indonesia is an option but only after Japan/SK/Taiwan are reduced. Well, actually the US COULD try and capture some of the small islands off the bat, and God knows Indonesia is full of groups more than happy to be free of the central government, but I don't see us getting oil out of there any time soon.
     
  11. Fayadi

    Fayadi Technocrat

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    What do you think the army of stans is made up of? A country that has the largest industrial manufacturing capability, largest production of steel, largest amount of manpower cannot even successfully invade small states in a total war? Not mentioning present Chinese military technology is superior in every aspect compared to Central Asia and Iran. Am I missing something here? :confused:
    That is not even counting in the outsourcing of American military technology to China in the scenario.

    About logistical issues. It is safe to say given the availability of the present industrial capability, it will not be a big problem to mass produce trucks, helicopters and airplanes to deal with logistical issue when the country goes into total war mode.

    Indonesia only produces about 1.2 million barrel of oil per day. Central Asia + Iran has many times more than that.
     
  12. Dachs

    Dachs Hero of the Soviet Union

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    Don't the Russians still have underground bunkers full of fuel all across eastern Siberia? Anyway, yeah, I wasn't trying to imply that the Chinese would be going after Siberia for oil, but that they would be expending military force in that direction and thus unable to attack Central Asia with what they put into the field in Siberia.
    Yeah.

    EDIT:
    When did I say that the Chinese wouldn't be able to win a military decision? I made no assertions with regards to combat capability, but instead on logistical issues.
    You're talking about a campaign of several thousand miles' distance, with a fairly large force that requires significant upkeep, into an area of the world that is not known for its amazing transport capacity or its good infrastructure. Besides, mass-production isn't going to take effect until long after any oil in Central Asia and Iran will have been denied to the invading forces by other means. Until the Chinese military modernization program is finished - and it isn't (and maybe not even when it's finished) - the PRC can't exert large-scale force across Central Asia. It just ain't happening.
    ...and Brunei, and Malaysia...and it'd probably be easier to grab. China's been looking south for oil more than she's been looking west AFAIK.
     
  13. Fayadi

    Fayadi Technocrat

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    That's why I said first part of the campaign. Main thrust of the attack is to capture Central Asia and Iran first. Both region secured, then can team up with USA to invade Russia.
     
  14. Patroklos

    Patroklos Deity

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    Indonesia is by far the better option. It is impossible to reinforce and plays int the naval dominance of the Chinese/US alliance. I just don't know how easy it would be to get the oil produced and to China in an acceptable time frame.

    Of course getting oil from Central Asia to China is impossible.
     
  15. Fayadi

    Fayadi Technocrat

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    Ok I would trust the opinion of the more knowledgeable in this regard :)
     
  16. Patroklos

    Patroklos Deity

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    All I am doing is looking at the map. No maritime access or pipelines from Central Asia/Iran to China.
     
  17. AceChilla

    AceChilla Goedheiligman

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    Indeed Central Asia is no option for China. Indonesia is going to be hard as well, China does not have an army which priority is projecting power overseas such as the US has.

    China does not even have an aircraft carrier and their navy is underdeveloped. While it would be the navy that will have to be used to first invade and hold Indonesia. Not an easy tasks at all and after that occupy it, supply it and be able to exploit it.

    It would be a far fetch at best, and remember they have to do this while facing India, world second largest army and by no ways underdeveloped, Pakistan, Russia and Japan. I don't think that option is viable either.
     
  18. Aegis

    Aegis Deity

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    Didn't China commission an Aircraft Carrier just recently?
     
  19. Terxpahseyton

    Terxpahseyton Bumble Bee

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    My bad, I meant UK not BG ^^
    Well this statistics perfectly substantiates my point. Germany provides the third largest amount of troops but is still not seriously dealing with Afghanistan warfarewise. I can guaranty u that, as it just had been big time on the news.

    o_O Thanks, but in this case might even agree with you.

    So what. Do you really think, US Navy is able to seize control over the entire african coast / all habours? 'cause there are two ways to get to Europe seaway. But I can tell u, that for example the congo has resources barely available anywhere else. Recourses very importent for electronics of different kinds.

    Land troops for sure. Africa is overall poor, but all together it got ground forces. Quantity, my friend.
    But no, I don't. But I know about the Euro Fighter or a German submarine being one of the technological most advanced in the world. Still I'd be delighted to be enlightened by you.
     
  20. carmen510

    carmen510 Deity

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    I would say it depends on who launches their nukes first. :p
     

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