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Use of spies to destroy enemy defenses

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by mariogreymist, Aug 28, 2009.

  1. mariogreymist

    mariogreymist Deity

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    Can someone explain to me how to pull this off? I know I want to support a revolt, and i have plenty of EPs to do just that. The question is, do I do it and attack the city on the same turn, or does it take a turn to take effect?

    The situation that has this coming up: playing Pericles, Standard size, Marathon, Prince. I have a major intercontinental invasion about to begin, using Cannon, Rifles and Calvary vs pre-industrial defenses. I am going for a cultural victory, but Justinian has far too much space and manufacturing capability to allow him to continue unimpeded, and his neighbors have been unable to counterbalance his power. So I am planning to seize 3 of his key cities as fast and bloodlessly as is humanly possible, and hopefully reduce him to a vassal in short order. The image is listing the defenses of Constantinople, which are about equivalent to the two other cities. (And yes, I know I can win this battle without using the espionage, but I want to keep my army as intact as possible, as his navy is far superior to mine and the chances of quick, significant reinforcements are nil.

     
  2. bestsss

    bestsss Emperor

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    Just before the 1st unit attacks. if you can keep the spies for 5 turns to reduce the cost, even better.
    And you should, even caravel works for transcontinental assault.

    Just raze the cities, pref. the capital... or create colony w/ them. No use to keep warring. On a second thought: why would you go culture if you can tackle the strongest? Even late culture is usually done since one feels laze for war.

    Mostly likely, you wont make him vassal unless he drops below the avg. score.
     
  3. mariogreymist

    mariogreymist Deity

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    Oh, that didn't go well. He dogpiled me. And you were right...should have razed. Took all three cities in the first two turns, then he dogpiled constantinople which had the bulk of my army in it. And two of my spies failed, including the one in constantinople, which was the only one I really needed to succeed, as I was attacking with cavalry across open ground. The other two I was able to have cannons on the standby, just in case.

    The real reason I didn't want to raze constantinople is that I was a greedy bastard, and saw a shrine. In hindsight, should have just put everything in adrianople, defeated his dogpile (which my consolidated force surely would have done) and then go get the prize afterwards. The danger being if he doesn't try the dogpile, then I am left with perhaps the most important strategically of the three, but certainly the least important in terms of stopping his progress.

    Edit: went back and replayed with the other strategy. The dogpile which totally defeated my progress in the split attack strategy succeeded in killing a grand total of two Calvary...Two. The rest of my army is happily intact, and with enough strength to keep a seige from forming again. Lesson learned: splitting forces might work against Noble, but at prince or higher, don't try to get fancy. I'll start a new one now.
     
  4. Ignorant Teacher

    Ignorant Teacher Emperor

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    Or just bring more troops. :)
     
  5. mariogreymist

    mariogreymist Deity

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    The sad thing is, I could have done that if I was more willing to let a third player get a tech lead. Not being the leader in tech is hardly the end of the world for a culture win, so long as you have an isolated core to run your cities, which I had in spades.
     
  6. GenerallyGreat

    GenerallyGreat Prince

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    Splitting your stack is a great way to confuse the AI and defeat them quicker AFTER you have dealt with their SOD but not before.
     
  7. Bushface

    Bushface Deity

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    If you're relying on causing a city to revolt then send two or more spies, not just one. And yes, attack in the same turn: you should see that the city's defence has dropped to zero, so get in there at once.
    It won't affect your chance of causing a revolt, but I've found that a useful pre-invasion tactic is to send spies to sabotage your enemy's resources. Prime targets are strategic (eg iron, oil) if their loss prevents the production of good units, then luxuries to make his cities unhappy and hence less productive, then grains to reduce health. It's cheaper to sabotage resources rather than buildings, but you may need a whole lot of spies.
     
  8. mariogreymist

    mariogreymist Deity

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    This is one of those higher difficulty setting lessons. At noble, it is possible when ahead by a tech era to do exactly what I did and be very successful fighting off the SoD with a relatively small force of advanced troops. I had to learn sometime.
     
  9. macabre

    macabre Chieftain

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    i usually never try to split an attacking stack.
    when it's split, the ai suicides cats/trebs/cannons and it has a much more damaging effect than if it did the same thing to the larger stack (especially if you only have 1 unit with medic 3 promotion)
     
  10. mariogreymist

    mariogreymist Deity

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    That's true, and I won't be trying this again. The lower cost of units for the AI as you move up in levels is translated into a noticeably larger SoD. So, while four riflemen can hold off a noble level SoD, at Prince it's a close thing at best. I will be using this kind of invasion strategy for the off-coast when I control both oceans though. A major, single city attack on the west, drawing the SoD, followed 3 turns later by several smaller forces attacking the east coast cities, which will be left without reinforcements thanks to the mobilization. (Assuming I can generate an army capable of such a move)

    And if I'd used my original force to raze and pillage, it would have won me the game, most likely. The one thing that I could do wrong was to divide my force and attempt to occupy the cities.
     

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