Using armored formers and probe teams in base defense

[vyeh]

We have been looking at a bug related to a non-combat unit inside a base defending against a Planet-controlled mindworm.

The use of armored non-combat units as base defenders has several advantages.

We'll look at two cases: synth armored formers and synth armored probe teams.

(1) Synth armored formers.

(a) From p. 100 of the SMAC manual:

Unarmed units get -50% penalty defending against combat units. A unit is considered “non-combat” if it has no weapon and no armor, so a former unit
with plasma steel armor does not get the non-combat penalty when attacked.

By putting synth armor on formers (the cost goes from 20 minerals to 40 minerals), the defense goes up by 4 (loss of the -50% penalty and increase in armor from 1 to 2).

(b) The synth armored former can conduct its normal former duties when the base isn't threatened.

(c) Finally, the synth armored former can increase its morale as it survives attacks.

(2) Synth armored probe teams.

(a) The cost of a standard probe team is 30 minerals. The cost of a synth armored probe team with infantry chassis is 30 minerals.

(b) An unarmored probe team has an intrinsic defense of .01. A synth armored probe team has an intrinsic defense of 2, a huge increase!

(c) It can still defend the base from probe attacks (unfortunately the armor doesn't seem to help in probe combat).

(d) It requires no support.

(e) If there is another unit in the base, you should designate the synth armored probe team as the defender. If the other unit is attacked and destroyed, the probe team is also destroyed.

 

[Petek]

vyeh,

A comment regarding your point (2)(e): It seems you cannot make a Probe Team (armored or not) a designated defender. See the attached Probe Defender, 2101.zip. The armored Probe Team doesn't respond to the Ctrl + D command, nor does the Action menu contain such an option. A bug? It seems that any combat unit should be able to be designated as a defender. Here's an excerpt from p. 104 of the SMAC manual:

You can designate a unit to act as the primary defender (using ctrl + D, or the Designate Defender command in the Action menu), or the game automatically defends with the strongest defensive unit in the base.

Note that the last part of the above quote is wrong: The disciplined scout patrol defends against the MW, not the veteran Probe.

Petek

 

[vyeh]

I couldn't find the attachment, so I used the save below.

I've confirmed both of your findings. I gave the scout weaker morale than the probe team and yet the scout was the defender. The probe team would have defended at strength 2.81. The very green scout I created defended at 2.18 and it was the very green scout that defended when both units were in the base.

(Should we see if chuft can figure out how to clone our posts?)

 

[Lefty Scaevola]

It is importantant to armor on defending probes for probe defense, if the enemy also has artillery.
An unarmored probe defending a base will be reduced to 10% if the enemy first attacks with artillery, rendering it easy game in probe to probe combat. Even some of the AI's attack in this manner. I have more than once seen AI's react to an invasion taking one of their bases by bombarding it and then probe swarming it (partly becasue their infantry is slower than their probe teams).

 

[vyeh]

You are correct. Being armored confers two benefits on the probe team: it is a harder target for the artillery and it can only be reduced to 50%.

 

[chuft]

So in conclusion, the ideal base defense in your rearward areas consists of an armored probe and an armored crawler?

They defend you against worms and probes, the probe can bribe adventurous enemy units wandering back there and the crawler can later be cashed in for a prototype or special project if needed, or just sent out to collect resources if desired. A lot of flexibility for garrisons! And they cost no support!

 

[vyeh]

Neither a probe team nor a crawler can suppress drones.

If my police rating is such that a garrison suppresses drones, I like to have a shell unit. (IIRC, hypnotic trance is free. When non lethal methods becomes available, I like to use that).

Armored crawlers are great. They collect resources and the additional cost is often justified by their increased longevity to MW attacks.

Note that you can upgrade a standard crawler to an armored variant with a little notice.

If you have no police power, an armored probe can serve double duty protecting the base from probing and against wandering mind worms without requiring support cost.

And the ability to mindcontrol a single enemy unit can be useful.

 

[StrikerX22]

What did you mean by "shell unit"? I'll assume you know that trance is att/def rounded down, max 2.

The reason I see Probe teams not having any innate combat ability nor needing support is because I see them as a small team of people, as opposed a large "garrison" and so forth. I see combat units as being a large force in comparison, as you wouldn't take over a base with a single person. Also, note that their morale represents a different skill set than combat units, since Monoliths don't affect them, nor does a Command Center or Morale stat. They are destroyed when no combat units remain as a matter of course, being weaker than a terraformer.

In this line of thinking, armored Probe teams shouldn't be getting benefits in the way of defending against a mass of units or mind worms, but should be defended against artillery more. They probably shouldn't be as good as a whole police unit either. Anything more I consider a bug/exploit, personally, hint nudge.

 

[vyeh]

What did you mean by "shell unit"?

A shell unit has minimal attack and defense (if another faction approaches, it is upgraded to the best configuration) and is designed for drone suppression or wild mindworm defense.

I'll assume you know that trance is att/def rounded down, max 2.

I believe 1-1-1 and 1-1-1, trance are both 1 row.

Anything more I consider a bug/exploit, personally, hint nudge.

Be my guest in reporting it here.

 

[StrikerX22]

Ah yeah, I see. Yes 1-1-1 has trance free (1 +25% is 1.25 rounds off to 1) It's a nice thing for early police over rec commons.

Yeah I might suggest it. Just seems to fit more, and strategically/balance-wise it's better to not have units that can do everything. Cheapens the experience.