1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Using both tradition and liberty

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Ljb123, Jul 13, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Ljb123

    Ljb123 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2012
    Messages:
    12
    Hello I am new to this forum and kind of new to civ 5 so this might sound like a dumb question but is it a good idea to use tradition and liberty together or is it better just to stick with one or the other and try to finish it all the way through Bc what happens I do both sometimes and rarely finish one and have both unfinished
     
  2. dexters

    dexters Gods & Emperors Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2003
    Messages:
    4,150
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Canada
    Yes I've successfully used Liberty to open my game then open up Tradition next.

    If you're going for a culture/faith game, you may have to go piety right after Liberty and open tradition 3rd. It's a very nice all around 'growth' SP that really powers your tall empire where your capital city may account for 1/3 of your science/culture output.

    Some things will be relatively weaker however if it's not your opener. 3 culture opener won't be noticable and finisher 4 free aqueducts you will still benefit from (you won't have to pay maintenance for them) but if you open it 3rd after Piety it may be too far into the game for you to hold off on aqueducts that long so you may have to build them first. Legalism with its 4 free culture buildings is probably the most powerful SP in the mix epecially if you're going Opera House>Museam or Museum>Broadcast Tower, you can skip one tier and save a whole bunch of hammers.

    That said Liberty + Tradition is a very good combo for a mixed empire with a strong core and lots of puppets. It has a good mix of empire wide and core specific bonuses.

    Edit: Regarding your comment on difficulty finishing both by the end of the early game. Try to finish Libery first, don't dabble in both, it will give you a free Great Person earlier which you can use to rush a wonder, though the downside is it will cost you more(double) to produce your first one though the opportunity cost of losing a wonder with +1 GP point shoudl also be considered. Also note that you wan't to take Representation as early as you can. I gives a free GA and reduces future culture cost by 33%. You can technically pick it as your 2ND SP after unlocking Liberty but it's probably too early. 4th SP for the GA is a good rule of thumb. It should give you enough time to get the production bonus, free settler, and worker and have 2 cities at minimum working full speed. If you're jumping between tradition and Liberty and hold of Representation too long, you're paying so much extra culture to unlock SP. You wan't that 33% reduction in SP cost as soon as possible.

    If you're going semi-wide with a tall core you really need to watch the culture output of your nonpuppeted core. Keep your core to 4-5 cities. This is really plenty and I play on large maps. So I assume you can probably get away with 3 or 4 core cities on smaller maps. Don't build too many cities because your culture cost will go up exponentially, and focus on culture buildings. This is why Legalism from Tradition is awesome. Time it for Opera Houses if your best bet. Lots of free culture. Ally Culture CS for free culture. And time your Golden Ages well (remember, they also give you extra culture now).

    Also note that puppet cities now have a 25% culture/science penalty. Don't expect your puppets to power you to a lot of culture. With these things in mind you should be able to easily unlock and be well into your 3rd SP or even dabble in your forth so by the time the game ends. The variability will depend on if you get lucky with the big culture wonders (Terracotta/Petra/Oracle/Sydney Opera/Sistine/Cristo Retendor) ; # of cultural CS you can find who you can easily ally yourself with (it's not always easy in every game).
     
  3. JacktheBodiless

    JacktheBodiless Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2008
    Messages:
    32
    I respectfully disagree. Having either Liberty or Tradition combined with a later policy tree (Rationalism or Piety, Freedom/Autocracy/Order depending on VC, G&K's revamped Commerce, even Patronage if that's your game) is worth more than having some or all of both Liberty and Tradition. Don't forget that the exponentially increasing costs of later policies impose significant hidden downside to unfocused early choices. If going wide, Liberty, if going tall, Tradition. Truthfully, in G&K, maybe just always Tradition.
     
  4. dexters

    dexters Gods & Emperors Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2003
    Messages:
    4,150
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Canada
    You're right. What I was describing was going full tilt liberty, finishing it, then going tradition.

    My description of ordered policies liberty>tradition assumes full policy completion.

    In my edited post I actually advised against dabbling and pointed out Representation's benefit of reducing SP costs and my own feeling is that 4th SP after unlock is the sweet spot so you have big enough cities and monuments for culture, hopefully timed with a wonder build, to benefit from it.
     
  5. snarzberry

    snarzberry Emperor

    Joined:
    May 28, 2010
    Messages:
    1,240
    Location:
    New Zealand
    Generally I'll only do both if I want 4 good buildings from legalism. Otherwise I think you're better off just choosing one and then taking a later tree as your second option. Tradition is very powerful now, but the sooner you complete it the better. Actually with the buffs to tradition my initial reaction is that it would have been better if they left the free settler from liberty where it was.
     
  6. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak R.I.P.

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,954
    Location:
    Québec
    I feel the same too.
     
  7. Mesix

    Mesix One of Porg

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2006
    Messages:
    4,359
    Location:
    Ahch-To
    I like to open both Liberty and Tradition. My standard policy order is:

    Tradition > Liberty > bonus +1 :c5production: > free settler > free worker

    After that it is based on current circumstances. I like to open Tradition early for the border growth and +3 :culture: early which snowballs throughout the game. This is especially key in the early game why you have only one city and the policies are cheaper. I like to save the four free culture buildings for Opera Houses later in the game.
     
  8. bhavv

    bhavv Glorious World Dictator

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2006
    Messages:
    7,358
    Its too hard for me to do anything other than both tradition and liberty, and then rationalism. The buildings from tradition are now maintenance free, which on top of monarchy gets you an immense GPT boost, plus the wonder and growth bonuses are superb. But I also want all the liberty stuff on top of that as well.
     
  9. TandooriChicken

    TandooriChicken Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2002
    Messages:
    34
    I thought that's what you meant. There's at least one other thread devoted to the dangers of dabbling. My response was more intended along the lines of, "Even assuming full completion, it may be hard to find situations where completing both liberty and tradition would be the optimal path."

    I suppose the exception that jumps immediately to mind is the four-city (or wider) culture game. Assuming Legalism OpHo's force Tradition, the question then becomes can Liberty offer more than Piety, Patronage, Commerce, or Freedom? Maybe someone who plays culture can weigh in. I'm more of a domination-type guy. Can't get enough ROFLtreaties ("here's all my gold and lux for peace in a war I declared in which you did nothing but chew up the units I sent piecemeal through the mountain pass chokepoint on our border...").
     
  10. Esperr

    Esperr King

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2012
    Messages:
    868
    Did they change the tradition opener in G+K? Because going tradition opener-->liberty would actually slow you down if it remained the same, for the simple fact that the plus three wont make up for itself ever....IIRC
     
  11. Evil Spock

    Evil Spock Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2015
    Messages:
    24
    I normally play this on multiplayer my friends play because their not as good at civ and i like to see 5v1s against me. This strategy works dry well with Egypt opening liberty and focusing efforts to collective rule, building a decent level of cities i do about 8-9 on small map thats basically highest end of the scale for settling on a Pangea in my opinion. After collective rule sand sprawl i focus efforts of religion because Egyptian burial tombs and awesome for happiness and faith, try to get a good happiness religion pagodas and mosques are great then dip into trad finishing it getting the capital happiness is good and finisher growth for mid to late game is awesome but keep happiness in check, after tradition move back to liberty and open rationalism and with Egypt's faith you can generate 2 of the most important GPs in the game on a different counter to what your doing. Depending on military/happiness situation go order but freedom is generally the best option if your empire stable and your happy with production output
     
  12. lindsay40k

    lindsay40k Emperor

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,654
    Location:
    England
    I'm a fan of it with Polynesia, just did it in a multiplayer. Getting Pyramids and Hanging Gardens means capital is a growth & GP powerhouse, and the other cities on wiggly plateaus produce a lot of culture with rapid Moai construction. I even opened Honor for CS questing :)
     
  13. joncnunn

    joncnunn Senior Java Wizard Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2008
    Messages:
    8,621
    Location:
    Missouri
    Moderator Action: No need to revive this late Vanilla / early G&K thread.
    Thread closed.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page