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USSR vs. USA

Discussion in 'World History' started by Merc, Jan 28, 2003.

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  1. Merc

    Merc Under Pressure

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    If there was every a war between these two, who would have won? I've heard things like the Soviets had a bigger military but mostly outdated equipment, and only 2/3 their army spoke Russian, some other junk, but my knowledge is minimal on the subject. So, to anyone who knows anything, what do you think?
     
  2. joespaniel

    joespaniel Unescorted Settler

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    Neither.

    Even if nuclear weapons stayed out of the equasion, a conventional war would have resulted in horrific loss of life.

    And remember, the US had most of Western Europe on its side.

    The NATO allies would likely emerge as the victors, but the price would have been staggering.

    Im glad it never came to war.
     
  3. nixon

    nixon Rationale is leaving you

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    You wouldn't perform a conventional strike - from either side - which was nothing less than eradicating something major, e.g. a carrier, a Kilo-class/Ohio-class, a base etc. Which would naturally call upon the nuclear forces to retaliate. Conducting a half-hearted conventional strike is simply out of question, I would think.

    I am still claiming that conventional war CAN exist between two nuclear powers, but if the CCCP and the United States really went to war, both would've resorted to nuclear weapons within a short time.
     
  4. wtiberon

    wtiberon One man who stands alone

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    Even assuming that nuclear weapons were used I would say that neither would have been capable of winning. For both sides it would take the ENTIRE domination of the others country to claim victory as each would fight to the last man.

    The U.S. would have tactical and technological supremecy. Their war machine is second to none in recorded history and more than likely the war would begin in Europe and Asia. However if we are to assume that allies would be involved then the sheer man power of Russia, China, N. Korea, and Vietnam would be more than we could handle. Technology wise the Soviet Union would be hard pressed to launch an assault onto N. America as his only ally Cuba is not directly connected to the U.S.

    Mexico could have been persuaded to hold Soviet troops if they could do so in a stealthy manner. However I feel sorry for any country that ever tried to invade the U.S. expecially through Texas. :)
     
  5. Merc

    Merc Under Pressure

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    I was asking because I just saw part of the movie Red Dawn, and I thought that U.S. was way too pathetic. I didn't see the begining, though, so maybe they had some sort of "master plan" that worked real good.
     
  6. wtiberon

    wtiberon One man who stands alone

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    Yeah a scenario like Red Dawn of a suprise sneak attack in the 80s is rediculous. Of course it was during a time when we had an inflated idea of how strong the Soviet Union actually was. We assumed they were as strong as we were or stronger but by the late 80s we learned different.
     
  7. SunTzu

    SunTzu Hooah Retired Moderator

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    yeha Red Dawn was like an invasion from Russia into Alaska and then like the Northwest and the invasion by the Warsaw Pact who snuck on freighters and invaded New York and the Cubans invaded and swept up the mississippi river valley or something like that.
     
  8. stalin006

    stalin006 Chieftain

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    well it isnt taht easy, take nukes out of the equations and extermely hard to figure it out.

    number one europe would had been taken over, england could last since they are in an island, but germany italy and france are gone.

    the americans would had taken cuba out easy.

    then russia takes the oil of the middle east, weakening the US

    america retaliates by using sthealt tech to bomb military bases.

    north korea takes south korea, w/ soviet support.

    who knows if japan woudl survive. maybe not because of the proximity to the mainland.

    china would be a ally for any sides, if allied to ussr, japan and most of asia gone, if allied to US, china alone woudl fight russia tot he end (if no nukes or chem or bio weapons)
     
  9. Zcylen

    Zcylen Moonlight Rambler

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    well, Pancho Villa did, and succesfully.The only attack to the US in their land in all their history
    :)
     
  10. stalin006

    stalin006 Chieftain

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    that is true, he came, he saw, he attacked, he was never found or taken by the americans
     
  11. joespaniel

    joespaniel Unescorted Settler

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    The War of 1812, British troops landed and burned Washington DC to the ground.

    Hawaii was not yet a state in 1941, but it was a US possession (territory), so the bombing of Pearl Harbor could count as well.

    I dont count the revolutionary war nor the civil war, for obvious reasons.
     
  12. Merc

    Merc Under Pressure

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    Actually, the Japanese took an Alaskan island in WW2.
     
  13. MadScot

    MadScot Brandy's back!

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    The Soviet/Warsaw Pact 'window of opportunity' was probably the late 70s/early 80s, IMO.

    Earlier on the cold war the NATO technical superiority (especially in nuclear weapons, we know now) was probably enough to deter the Pact, although the West didn't know it at the time.

    But by the late 70s the oil shock had badly damamged Western economies and defence spending had reduced, plus the US Armed Forces was in the Vietnam after-shock and was something of a hollow shell. (Drugs issues etc)

    Assuming a conventional offensive into Western Europe - the 'usual scenario' - it's hard to imagine the NATO forces stopping GSFG. The Pact would probably have gone chenical early too, which would have pretty much devastated the FRG.

    Chances have to be that the Russians would have got to somewhere near the lower Rhine before running out of steam, at least. While the Russian CatII and CatIII divisions were pretty much cannon fodder, with obsolescent equipment, at least they HAD a second wave - NATO was pretty much a one shot deal, once the REFORGER units were in theatre.

    The question is whether the Pact would have stopped at the Rhine. The question of French nuclear retaliation would come into play quite quickly, had they pushed on to Paris, say. Similar considerations apply to an attempt to take the UK.

    Of course, one has to wonder WHY they would have attacked. After all, there wouldnt have been much left to loot. I guess its a good thing they never thought of a good reason.
     
  14. Terje

    Terje The Red Semi-Menace

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    In the eastern european communist states, they claimed that socialist states didn't pollute, so it's more likely that the russians would begin using nuke than the americans. But I don't doubt that the Americans would be just as swift in their retaliation.

    But who would win? None, I'd say, since such a war probably would ruin the world completely.
     
  15. Panda

    Panda Metal head

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    IIRC, the Soviets didn't officially acknowledge the possibility of nuclear winter until the glasnost era. But I believe either side would rather have nuked half of Europe in order to prevent the opposite side gaining control of all of Europe, escalating in world-wide nuclear holocaust.
     
  16. Tibetian Monk

    Tibetian Monk Chieftain

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    The Soviets would have attacked to Paris before being stopped and would probably nuke Tokyo, and help North Korea invade South Korea. Then they would attack Alaska. The US would then sue for peace.
     
  17. napoleon526

    napoleon526 Emperor

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    Actually actually, they took several of the Alaskan Aleutian Islands.

    Tom Clancy's Red Storm Rising is a good hypothetical narrative of what a non-nuclear USA vs. USSR war would be like.
     
  18. stalin006

    stalin006 Chieftain

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    yeah, oil.
     
  19. joespaniel

    joespaniel Unescorted Settler

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    "The Third World War" by General Sir John Hacket.

    The best NATO vs USSR war scenario ever.

    Hailed by the Armed Forces, Tom Clancy used it as a backdrop for Red Storm Rising.
     
  20. EmuGod

    EmuGod Chieftain

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    The USSR never invaded because the Cold War was not meant for one power to take over the other but rather to attempt to be able to defeat the other in case of a war. I think of the Cold War as this: a chess game where each player tries to get into a better position on the board so that in case of an actual war he can be the victor. Only a few minor pwans (such as Vietnam, and North Korea) attack other pawns and are retaliated upon. Any attacks on any larger game piece results in the destruction of the entire board and both sides are completely wiped out.
     
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