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[v150] Ships and ice tiles

Discussion in 'Communitas Expansion Pack' started by Sanguinus, Apr 24, 2012.

  1. Sanguinus

    Sanguinus Chieftain

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    Hey,

    I just recognised that (some) ships now may traverse ice hexes.
    Currently their movement is slowed down to 1 tile per round by doing so.

    What do you think about ships which in addition may get damaged (random event and/or random amount of damage) while traversing ice tiles?

    There also could be an "icebreaker" promotion (to newer ships).
     
  2. Dunkah

    Dunkah Emperor

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    Love this idea however the Ai most likely wouldn't know how to use it and would thus lose any ships they sent in to the ice... thus losing all of thier ships.
     
  3. Thalassicus

    Thalassicus Bytes and Nibblers

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    I've been thinking about changing this so it's not a promotion: instead, all ships get icebreaking when Astronomy is researched.
     
  4. albie_123

    albie_123 Modding In Secret

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    For oceanfearing ships, I'd like that. But I think giving Triremes the icebreaking promotion makes it less relevant to build / upgrade to the Caravel instead - because honestly, who needs to explore the endless ocean, anyway? You use Caravels to explore the other continent, which Triremes could do if they could traverse the caps.
     
  5. Thalassicus

    Thalassicus Bytes and Nibblers

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    Triremes could explore the icecaps, but at 1/6th the speed of a Caravel on open ocean. It takes a Caravel 14 turns to circumnavigate a standard-sized map (if it can follow a straight line). In comparison, it would take 80 turns for a trireme to do so via ice. 80 turns after Astronomy basically puts us at the Industrial Era's destroyers.
     
  6. albie_123

    albie_123 Modding In Secret

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    Oh yeah, I forgot about the movement penalty on ice. Sorry, my mistake - would probably work well then.
     
  7. Herex

    Herex Chieftain

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    I'm not sure if I've totally missed something, but aren't Caravels supposed to be able to enter Ocean? In my current game, my Caravels can only enter Coastal tiles.
    Astronomy is needed for embarked units to enter Ocean. Surely that isn't needed for Caravels as well, right?
     
  8. wobuffet

    wobuffet Barbarian

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    You do need Astronomy. This is unchanged from the vanilla game, and is prominently featured in the description of the Caravel itself.
     
  9. Zaldron

    Zaldron King

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    In vanilla Caravels unlock at astronomy and can immediately enter the ocean. In VEM Caravels unlock at Compass and can't enter the ocean until Astronomy is researched.
     
  10. Prodigyx732

    Prodigyx732 Chieftain

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    What I don't understand is how or why astronomy unlocks such a thing... perhaps I'm missing something here??

    And surely we we're able to travel across the ocean long before the renaissance era.

    Now historically, astronomy is the oldest of natural sciences i.e. ancient era.. but apparently in the renaissance era.. it was formed as a science in it's own right.

    But hey.. it's just a game and I can only assume the historical inaccuracy is due in the name of "balance"
     
  11. Herex

    Herex Chieftain

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    Thanks for the replies, everyone. I guess I've just gotten to Astronomy before really utilizing the Caravels in my other games. :)

    Although I disagree on this part
    It clearly says "A Ranged Unit, it is stronger and faster than a Trireme, and it can enter Deep Ocean hexes."
    But that part is obviously just leftover from Vanilla then.
     
  12. Zaldron

    Zaldron King

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    Right, that message is leftover from Vanilla where it required astronomy to build.
     
  13. Thalassicus

    Thalassicus Bytes and Nibblers

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    I think he meant on the caravel's ability list. It has the "requires astronomy" attribute. I don't generally alter civilopedia text because it takes a lot of time for something rarely read.

    On a side note, I think Civilization 5 should have use an ingame internet browser to access an official wiki site verified for historical accuracy. The civilopedia concept made sense in the 90's, but using such a method today takes too long to develop. Firaxis wasted a lot of time with some aspects of the game (like manually written building tooltips). That time could have been more efficiently spent in other ways.
     
  14. albie_123

    albie_123 Modding In Secret

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    I suspect that the Civilopedia is kept less for any real function and more for the fact that it has become such a notable part of the series for quite some time. I know I spent hours and hours on it in Civ IV. :D
     
  15. Txurce

    Txurce Deity

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    I'm not sure how useful the 80 vs 14 comparison is, but regardless: why give triremes a physical impossibility like icebreaking at Astronomy, which has nothing to do with icebreaking, anyway? Wouldn't it be simpler to just give it automatically to caravels and above?
     
  16. Thalassicus

    Thalassicus Bytes and Nibblers

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    It's quite possible. You just pick up the boat, or build a new one on the other side. People were navigating ice long before "icebreaking" came into existence. The icecap issue won't matter once my brother actually finishes the ocean rift system he's been putting off. He starts lots of projects but never finishes them! :crazyeye:
     
  17. Jorlem

    Jorlem Chieftain

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    Oooh. That sounds interesting. What would an ocean rift do?
     
  18. wobuffet

    wobuffet Barbarian

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    I think Thal's talking about a system that'd ensure that circumnavigation by the poles are never completely blocked off by ice tile.
     

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