V19 Ideas & Priorities (player/fan perspective)

EldrinFal

King
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Mar 22, 2011
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I'm starting this thread for people to post what aspect of the mod they think needs to be addressed for the next version. This is not a guarantee that the modders will address them, or address them in any specific order, but we DO want to hear what people think needs fixing, adding, removing, etc. in a general sense.

You can, of course, continue to use specific threads for specific topics. :)
 

steampunk1880

Prince
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Feb 22, 2007
Messages
328
If there's no objections could we playtest the hierarchical method of handling alt timeline: megafauna domestication and put placeholders with proper stats for all (unusual animal) riders we currently don't have. We can worry about getting special graphics for them later.

I'd also see Clockpunk mini-age stuff added in as a major milestone that shows we're making progress with the alt timeline project but that needs more stuff to go along with it than the two units and three buildings already fleshed out.
 

BlueGenie

Emperor
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Partly reverting back to Dead-End techs (forced to having to research all and every tech isn't fun, especially when you gain absolutely nothing from some techs, depending on your resources and placement) and if the modders feel up to it change the religion founding techs to ALL be a dead end AND having a prerequisite tech that leads to nothing but possible religions, in the style of something like:

Naturism: Leads to Shamanism (with other prerequisites), Druidism (with other prerequisites), Ngaiism (with other prerequisites), and Tengriism (with other prerequisites).
Gives early temple buildings? Edit: Shrines. Gives Shine buildings. Couldn't think of the name at first post.

Polytheism Leads to Asatru (with other prerequisites), Zoroantrism (with other prerequisites), Hinduism (with other prerequisites), and others that fit.
Gives Temple buildings.

Monotheism: Leads to Judaism (with other prerequisites), Christianity (with other prerequisites), Islam (with other prerequisites), and others that fit.
Gives Monastery buildings.

Philosophy (or Religious Philosophy): Leads to Confucianism (with other prerequisites), Taoism (with other prerequisites), and others that fit.
Gives Cathedral buildings.

Cheers.
 

Koshling

Vorlon
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Apr 11, 2011
Messages
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Partly reverting back to Dead-End techs (forced to having to research all and every tech isn't fun, especially when you gain absolutely nothing from some techs, depending on your resources and placement) and if the modders feel up to it change the religion founding techs to ALL be a dead end AND having a prerequisite tech that leads to nothing but possible religions, in the style of something like:

Naturism: Leads to Shamanism (with other prerequisites), Druidism (with other prerequisites), Ngaiism (with other prerequisites), and Tengriism (with other prerequisites).
Gives early temple buildings? Edit: Shrines. Gives Shine buildings. Couldn't think of the name at first post.

Polytheism Leads to Asatru (with other prerequisites), Zoroantrism (with other prerequisites), Hinduism (with other prerequisites), and others that fit.
Gives Temple buildings.

Monotheism: Leads to Judaism (with other prerequisites), Christianity (with other prerequisites), Islam (with other prerequisites), and others that fit.
Gives Monastery buildings.

Philosophy (or Religious Philosophy): Leads to Confucianism (with other prerequisites), Taoism (with other prerequisites), and others that fit.
Gives Cathedral buildings.

Cheers.

I like this suggestion re religions - should discourage hording (might have to teach the AI that founding lots of religions isn't terribly useful but that'll be easy)
 

EldrinFal

King
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Mar 22, 2011
Messages
926
Partly reverting back to Dead-End techs (forced to having to research all and every tech isn't fun, especially when you gain absolutely nothing from some techs, depending on your resources and placement) and if the modders feel up to it change the religion founding techs to ALL be a dead end AND having a prerequisite tech that leads to nothing but possible religions, in the style of something like:

Naturism: Leads to Shamanism (with other prerequisites), Druidism (with other prerequisites), Ngaiism (with other prerequisites), and Tengriism (with other prerequisites).
Gives early temple buildings? Edit: Shrines. Gives Shine buildings. Couldn't think of the name at first post.

Polytheism Leads to Asatru (with other prerequisites), Zoroantrism (with other prerequisites), Hinduism (with other prerequisites), and others that fit.
Gives Temple buildings.

Monotheism: Leads to Judaism (with other prerequisites), Christianity (with other prerequisites), Islam (with other prerequisites), and others that fit.
Gives Monastery buildings.

Philosophy (or Religious Philosophy): Leads to Confucianism (with other prerequisites), Taoism (with other prerequisites), and others that fit.
Gives Cathedral buildings.

Cheers.

If you mean that the religions should be their OWN tech, I think it is something worth considering. In fact, I'd think that maybe they should be disproportionately MORE expensive too, so if you want a religion, you really have to dedicate your research efforts to it and take the risk of committing your research to it for that longer period.

There are some alternate suggestions on how to reconfigure religions as well and is probably something worth its own thread (if there isn't one already???)
 
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Partly reverting back to Dead-End techs (forced to having to research all and every tech isn't fun, especially when you gain absolutely nothing from some techs, depending on your resources and placement) and if the modders feel up to it change the religion founding techs to ALL be a dead end AND having a prerequisite tech that leads to nothing but possible religions, in the style of something like:

Naturism: Leads to Shamanism (with other prerequisites), Druidism (with other prerequisites), Ngaiism (with other prerequisites), and Tengriism (with other prerequisites).
Gives early temple buildings? Edit: Shrines. Gives Shine buildings. Couldn't think of the name at first post.

Polytheism Leads to Asatru (with other prerequisites), Zoroantrism (with other prerequisites), Hinduism (with other prerequisites), and others that fit.
Gives Temple buildings.

Monotheism: Leads to Judaism (with other prerequisites), Christianity (with other prerequisites), Islam (with other prerequisites), and others that fit.
Gives Monastery buildings.

Philosophy (or Religious Philosophy): Leads to Confucianism (with other prerequisites), Taoism (with other prerequisites), and others that fit.
Gives Cathedral buildings.

Cheers.

A better explanation of what was suggested before. How would it fit with Divine Prophets?

There are some alternate suggestions on how to reconfigure religions as well and is probably something worth its own thread (if there isn't one already???)

There isn't one yet, because StrategyOnly told (asked) me to make one and I haven't because I figured it would mean more work for me.:mischief: I will stat one now.
 

BlueGenie

Emperor
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Apr 23, 2009
Messages
1,575
I thought the main objective with Divine Prophets was so that the player/AI could chose what city to have the Holy City in or to get a Religion they "missed"?
If that's not it then I'm afraid I'm going to need an explanation on what the Divine Prophets are for.
If it is then I don't see a problem. You just get a Prophet instead of having the religion founded, and set the Holy City with it, or if getting a religion they "missed", set that in a city.

Though actually I'm thinking that if someone techs to a Religion Tech in the way I've proposed I suppose it's not OP to have anyone teching to it get a missionary to place the religion with, even if not first to the tech (first still gets Holy and maybe an extra missionary?). Maybe Divine Prophets aren't needed then, IF what I surmise they are for is true, of course.
 

Hydromancerx

C2C Modder
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California, USA
Partly reverting back to Dead-End techs (forced to having to research all and every tech isn't fun, especially when you gain absolutely nothing from some techs, depending on your resources and placement) and if the modders feel up to it change the religion founding techs to ALL be a dead end AND having a prerequisite tech that leads to nothing but possible religions, in the style of something like:

Naturism: Leads to Shamanism (with other prerequisites), Druidism (with other prerequisites), Ngaiism (with other prerequisites), and Tengriism (with other prerequisites).
Gives early temple buildings? Edit: Shrines. Gives Shine buildings. Couldn't think of the name at first post.

Polytheism Leads to Asatru (with other prerequisites), Zoroantrism (with other prerequisites), Hinduism (with other prerequisites), and others that fit.
Gives Temple buildings.

Monotheism: Leads to Judaism (with other prerequisites), Christianity (with other prerequisites), Islam (with other prerequisites), and others that fit.
Gives Monastery buildings.

Philosophy (or Religious Philosophy): Leads to Confucianism (with other prerequisites), Taoism (with other prerequisites), and others that fit.
Gives Cathedral buildings.

Cheers.

There is also Dualism where there just 2 gods but not a pantheon of gods nor a single god. I also find it interesting that within some Christian denomination they split it into 2 (God and the virgin Mary) or even 3 (the Holy Trinity). For instance in Masonic practices you have the masculine and the feminine. Though I don't know if you would call it a "religion".

On a side note this idea was brought up before by giving each religion their own tech, but it was rejected. :(

Ok so strategyonly and I have been working on making room for additional techs by separating each column with spaces. While RoM and AND had a lot of techs there were some ares that were left out. This post is ment to brainstorm for each area. Please chime in if you have ideas or comments about this subject.

* = Already in the Game

Religion Techs
- Shamanism (Req Personal Adornment AND Tribalism AND Petroglphs)*
- Tengriism (Req Horseback Riding AND Shamanism)

- Druidism (Req Naturopathy AND Mysticism)
- Yoruba (Req Folk Dance AND Mysticism)

- Hinduism (Req Sedentary Lifestyle AND Polytheism)
- Kemetism (Req Stargazing AND Polytheism)
- Mesopotamism (Req Pottery AND Polytheism)
- Asatru (Req Ship Building AND Polytheism)
- Hellenism (Req Athletics AND Polytheism)

- Naghualism (Req Sacrifice Cult AND Calendar AND Polytheism)
- Andeanism (Req Construction AND Polytheism)

- Jainism (Req Meditation AND Hinduism)
- Buddhism (Req Meditation AND Hinduism)
- Confucianism (Req Meditation AND Code of Laws)
- Taoism (Req Meditation AND Philosophy)
- Shintoism (Req Ancestor Worship AND Polytheism)

- Sikhism (Req Hinduism AND Monotheism AND Clockworks)

- Ngaiism (Req Livestock Domestication AND Dualism)
- Zoroastrianism (Req Duelism AND Monotheism)

- Judaism (Req Mesopotamism AND Monotheism)
- Islam (Req Education AND Monotheism)
- Christianity (Req Theology AND Judaism)
- Voodoo (Req Yoruba AND Christianity AND Fundamentalism)
- Mormon (Req Representative Democracy AND Christianity)
- Bahá'í (Req Steam Power AND Islam AND Christianity AND Buddhism)

- Scientology (Req Globalization)

Arg ok I have been looking over all this stuff all day. I will post the other subjects later. So here is just the religious techs. I tried to pick the most logical. Here is also a time line for the techs I found on the web.

There is also some room for other religious related techs too I think.

Spoiler :
 

Thunderbrd

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Divine Prophets would be quite harmonious with said idea of making religion earning techs be costly dead-end routes off the beaten tech path. I'd support that. The only change that would be necessary is to what techs then grant the free prophet and we'd have to change the normal tech requirements for the religions as necessary.

DP is for the strategic players that want control over where to place holy cities, who like to have a little exploitable element to their mod and who like to be able to have the power to grant themselves a religion that they never did get through their borders for whatever reason.

When designed, I had considered having the tech spawn a missionary for that religion but there are three big problems with that:
1) it cannot be made compatible with the Choose Religion option (well... not easily anyhow)
2) the ai would not easily understand its value
3) the chance of a missionary spreading a religion would need to be increased to flawless. (it would be the first and possibly only chance that religion EVER has to get started in your world.)

Additionally, if DP is on and Choose Religion is not, a prophet may only spread a religion that you technologically qualify for, keeping the amount of religions in the game limited to what has been tech earned as well. (Some AIs will hold their prophets until they qualify for what religion they really wish to found.)



Along these lines, I'm finding that the ability to spread start the two reintroduced religions have not been added to the prophet's mission lists yet...
 
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I have included in C2C The_J's "real favorite religion" mod which auto spreads your favorite to your capital if you aren't the one to found it.
 

Nightguard

Warlord
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May 11, 2008
Messages
131
One thing that I wanted to point out, and this is mainly just a balance concern more than a 'please add feature Y', is that currently Chariots require further tech levels and buildings to construct, but they are weaker than Horsemen. Could something be done to adjust this balance? Possibly giving chariots the ability to gain defensive bonuses, like mounted infantry, would help make them worth actually using again.
 

BlueGenie

Emperor
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Apr 23, 2009
Messages
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I have included in C2C The_J's "real favorite religion" mod which auto spreads your favorite to your capital if you aren't the one to found it.

Is there any info on what leaders have what favourite religion in the Civilopedia then, or is there a way to set Favourite Religion at start of a game? If not maybe there should be?
 

BlueGenie

Emperor
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Apr 23, 2009
Messages
1,575
I suppose that works to find out what leader to play.
What about being able to set an own favourite religion (without changing the files themselves)?
 

EldrinFal

King
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Mar 22, 2011
Messages
926
I suppose that works to find out what leader to play.
What about being able to set an own favourite religion (without changing the files themselves)?

I'm surprised there is no "Custom Leader" mod out there that lets you choose the Leaderhead, Traits, etc. Is it that much more complex over say Master of Orion or Galactic Civilizations that had those options?
 

Thunderbrd

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There IS some interesting stuff with that in FFH2 wherein the traits build along the way. It can be done with py popup and dll programming and I had always had that in mind as an eventual project to have leaders that develop as you go. All you'd really do at first is pick a graphic ;)
 

EldrinFal

King
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Mar 22, 2011
Messages
926
There IS some interesting stuff with that in FFH2 wherein the traits build along the way. It can be done with py popup and dll programming and I had always had that in mind as an eventual project to have leaders that develop as you go. All you'd really do at first is pick a graphic ;)

I recall that from FFH2, but you still started with 1, 2, or 3 traits and then added. The only problem is that it's luck based so you have to be near those special landmarks and move your unit their first to acquire them.

It would almost be better to attach traits to Techs and the first to acquire those techs get the traits (to a maximum limit).
 

Thunderbrd

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I would prefer to attach them to techs as prereqs and require the expenditure of game points that earn as you earn actual game points (but a different pool because they can be spent) derive them. Thus, say once you reach 100 pts you can pick your first trait, at 1000 pts you can pick your second etc. We may not need to work in tech prereqs but such a system that does would certainly reward us for the creation of a whole lot more leader traits which could be fun too. We could even work in upgrade paths for leader traits. The team had discussed this a while back and brought up some interesting modcomp material similar to this somewhere but I can't recall where...

First to reach a tech benefits are part of a larger imbalance problem in the mod and the basic game design concept that I'll be working to address down the road if I get the time for it... I just wouldn't want to see it proliferate further is all.
 

robomani

Chieftain
Joined
Aug 3, 2010
Messages
83
Haven't someone set something to track global culture for a civ, it could be the trigger to gain a new trait that you have the prerequisite (tech, war, alliance, vassal, civic, religion, etc).
 
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