V37

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What do we want to include in v37?

I'll try and keep this first post as an up to date list of new and improved things we are working on for v37. This thread will have discussions on many things we may like to add but this post will only include those we think we will have in v37

This is not about bug fixes which will be in threads in the bugs forum. I will add links to them here when I get round to creating them.

Executive Summary

Working on for v37
1) New water terrains mostly for oceans (ie coast, sea and ocean) to give some depth (pun intended) to combat etc. Will add deeper terrains for your submarines. Need to adjust some improvements to go with this.

2) Arrest criminal units that are in your cities.. Ambush and Assinate see here

3) Lunar colony prototype

9) Extension into space and to other planets (not multimaps)


There are ongoing reviews of the properties, units and buildings that take a lot of effort but don't show up here in the summary. Most bug fixes wont show up as they are reactionary not usually planed for;)

On the SVN for player testing

1) Changes to City screen
  • New filters for city buildings - crime etc.
  • Fix for old specialist bug (preliminary at the moment)

2) Goody huts now work for different terrains correctly (Sea, Lunar etc.)

3) Subdue Animal game mechanism changed

4) Hidden Nationality combat changed. Captured units get hidden nationality. Cities taken by Hidden Nationality units become barbarian cities.

5) New combat mechanism - Hide and Seek
  • Visibility of units changed
  • An invisible unit on a plot may be able to ambush enemies on the same plot

6) New Sea lake terrains with their navigation aspect of movement. Still working on all the unit movement changes. Have not started on the improvement changes mostly to undersea towns, extraction facilities and sea tunnels.

 
I would like to see in the next version
  • fix for the goody huts
  • City Screen working for specialists
  • Sevo's Faces of God mod included even if it is only the first cut
  • Equipment
 
if they sell 16 brands of cereal do they have to pay taxes on th e milkeshakes or the hashbrowns
 
City Screen working for specialists
Would be a perfect counterpart to the Law/Crime unit review that this next version will be all about on my end.

As stated in the other thread, this is also about setting up for equipment but I don't feel that equipment can be included in the goals for the next revision (will probably take up multiple versions once it really gets into devel anyhow.)

The planning for the law and crime stuff is something I've been plotting out here in the background for weeks now. I will soon unveil the full structure of it and all the intended projects that will accompany it. Then we can more fully discuss.

But one thing I'm looking to address is the thing you keep bringing up which is to make it possible for law enforcement units to occasionally arrest local criminals. There's quite a few projects like these involved in the overall plan. And land blockades has now been added to that list.

However, the reason that the specialists thing would fit in so nicely here is it would enable me to add specialists into the detective picture.

Part of this project may also be to finally work out the details of the advanced disease system so that it becomes a more generic system that can account for an equally advanced crime outbreak mechanism. And again, more specialist types could play into that very well.


As for the goody huts... we'll see but I don't think I'll be able to get much skin on that since when I tend to go to address something I rarely give it little patches but a complete rethink of how we can really go about things. I would consider it part of the multi-map project to try to resolve it so part of developing the later side of the game.

I'll try to stay available to work on the lakes and coast issues and I think opening full discussions on all the implications is another good project during this next revision. As far as it relates to Submersion rules, I don't intend to try to implement that right away as I believe the naval review should wait further commitment until some major work is done on land unit reviews, starting with the one I'm on now that involves Healers/Law Enforcement/Criminals/Strike Teams/Ruffians/Canines and Felines.

After this major review that includes a multitude of sub-projects, I'd like to tackle the military units and get them all balanced out and in tune with each other and with progression gradients. I'm hoping I can complete the Law/Crime review stuff this version then move on to the military units next version and finalize some sub-projects there during v38.

Then circling back to finally complete the naval review during v39.

By completing this full unit review circle I will be setting myself up to enact the remainder of the combat mod and keep it all in balance, including getting into equipment. Then the road is truly paved for Nomadic stuff and even for the progression into multi-maps.

Very long term planning here... But hopefully it will go quicker than it may sound like it would.

EDIT: I'll try to keep this list updated with new goals and crossing out goals achieved.
Goals for v37 (finally fully compiled though there may be edits to this list from things brought up elsewhere that slipped my mind when putting the list together.)
  • Make the Fortify button select a default buildup for all units selected.Went a slightly different way on this but better.
    [*]Find and debug the tag that's causing unitcombat modifiers to go haywire
  • Fix the issues with Goodies My part is complete.
    [*]Review SO's Save for optimization
  • Stay on top of bugs as they are reported.
  • Fix: Resources provided by buildings are available before they have been enabled by the appropriate tech.
  • Fix: Barbarians ignoring the border of a civ with the Great Wall.
  • Add SPECIALUNIT_CAPTIVES and add it to Captive unit definitions
  • Add tag to ChangeSpecialUnit on Promos and add function to reset if the promo is removed
  • Add tag to give Hidden Nationality from a promo
  • Make it so that any units captured by HN units are automatically given the HN promo and selectively may be made SPECIALUNIT_CAPTIVE
  • Create an effect that makes it so that certain specialunit types can penalize the combat capabilities (combat modifier, pursuit and withdrawal) for each one loaded. Maybe a set of tags on SpecialUnit xml
  • Generate Promotionline (Bounty Hunter) that gives the unit carrying capacity for SpecialUnit - Captive
  • New Unit Tag bExcile makes the unit incapable of entering its own national territory
  • New Unit Tag bPassage makes the unit that can attack still capable of moving through territory you have a rite of passage with.
  • Finish the unfinished bUpgradeAnywhere tag for units.
  • New Unit Tag bNoNonOwnedCityEntry tag - Important to keep Felines, Strike Teams and Ruffians distinct. Won't mean they can't attack, just that they can't safely enter. Makes them attack instead and if they 'capture' the city, they turn it into a barb city if it's kept and they are incapable of capturing barb cities (though may attack their units.)
  • Combat Mod gameoption: Hide and Seek - enables multiple invisibility types and uses a new tag that is only in use if the option is on to define those visibilities. All sorts of the invisibilities possessed by a unit must be detected on a plot for the unit to be seen by the detecting player.
  • Adjust breakdown attack mechanism so that units with breakdown can continue to attack after they've reached the maxcombat but do not continue to deal damage but will still auto withdraw once they've then suffered damage to the point that they only have the maxcombat amount of health left (but only IF they've reached the normal maxcombat on the enemy defender.)
  • Project: Fix Unit Display for Culture Garrison total on the unit so it's clear what it does (reduces chance of cultural revolt). May want to bring it up in the forum to see if we can add it as a modifier to chance of revolt on revolutions as well so it's clear its a benefit there as well.
  • Project: Fix Promotion tag that adds to iCultureGarrison value. Tie iRevoltProtection in with iCultureGarrison - make it additive. Take iRevoltProtection's calculation out of reducing the initial 10% chance of revolt if another civ culturally owns more of the city and add it to culture garrison instead so that it's more of a compare check against the second chance check (rndm 0-strength of culture% of majority owner VS Culture Garrison)iRevoltProtection is now effectively an iCultureGarrisonChange tag on promos and unitcombats.
  • Project: Investigation: Every round, every unit with Investigation capability makes a check against every local unit that has hideout capability. The check is Rnd 1-(100+Hideout of the unit checked against) VS Investigation capability of the unit. Local buildings and specialists should be able to enhance Investigation on local units as well as Buildings and Specialists should also add to local units hiding out.
  • Project: Promotions to enhance iHideout (perhaps forms the basis for Enhancing Invisibiliies) and some for Investigation (Again, forming the basis for Enhancing Visibilities)
  • Project: Debug anything that happens when a unit attacks its own tile.
  • Project: Arrest step 1 and 2.
  • Project: Ambush
  • Project: Assassination
  • Project: iStealthCombatModifier - A combat modifier when attacking a unit on the same plot or when attacking a unit that cannot see you.
  • Project: Negate First Strikes for any defenders that cannot see the attacker
  • Project: iStealthStrikes - First strikes that take place during stealth combat (benefits only attacker unless the defender can see the attacker and in that case the defender can get their stealth strikes, which may counteract the stealth strikes of the attacker, as first strikes do.)
  • Project: Promotions including iAmbush
  • Project: Re-plot out visibility factors on the unit review project in light of the latest modifications.
  • Project: Add iRevoltProtection penalties to the crime enhancing promo line, add iRevoltProtection bonuses to crime control promotions. Add iRevoltProtection to criminal and law enforcement unitcombats. Add iCultureGarison values to crime control and criminal units. Plot this out in the review at least.
  • Program in the edits and new techs/buildings/units/promotions included in the Law/Crime unit review
  • New process: Buildings Autospawning Criminals
  • Project - trap mechanism. - designed but needs a thread to explain exactly how it works and how to further develop the xml for it. Not high priority for pre-release.
  • Adjust the Advanced Disease system so it becomes an Advanced Properties system that can run properly without having all additional xml work defined. Make it a Combat Mod option - Outbreaks and Afflictions. Then begin to explain how we can make the system work to its fullest. Begin the process of implementation.
  • Add a game option for crime to diffuse to units from plots and cities and to diffuse from units to plots and cities.
  • Flesh out above option for interaction with Advanced Properties system so that use of both can make units pick up criminal behaviors as autopromos. Very important to make this all optional since only the players who appreciate the depth of property intricacies would appreciate this. (Totally worth it for the improved modelling and intriguing interactions with the rest of the criminal/law review we can get out of it though!)
  • Do a review of Merchants and Workers along with implementation of an inventory system that further gives Criminals and Ruffians the ability to pickpocket. Make it another Combat Mod option entirely.
  • Project: Land Blockades
  • New Ais Needed
    • UNITAI_INVESTIGATOR When it becomes apparent there are local criminal units infiltrating, the Investigator is ordered to help uproot them.
    • UNITAI_INFILTRATOR Most Criminals would be most useful as Infiltrators, going out to enhance crime as much as possible in enemy cities. They get good at sneaking around and staying hidden in cities while enhancing the amount of crime they create.
    • UNITAI_THIEF Goes along with the concept that Criminals can steal from units that can't see them. Some criminals would thus be sent out into the wild to intercept units that can't see them and steal all they can, transporting the goods back to the cities of the empire.
    • UNITAI_STRIKE_TEAM Review the pillage AI and rebuild for the AI to use strike teams with lethal cunning. Surround and destroy tactics, withdrawal, strengthen and kill kill kill all they can get away with. Go hassle one or more target enemy players. Build 2 to 4 to face each player they want to harrass.
    • UNITAI_COUNTER_STRIKE Something needs to be done to help the AI build forces that can counter strike team harrassment. Strike teams would themselves be able to play a good role in this along with canines and other counter units such as axes and mounted. They are also there to help intercept incoming visible criminals when possible.
    • UNITAI_INFORMANT We don't build Informants but when a criminal is captured there's the option to turn him into an informant which gives him a free promo for informant and changes his AI. He won't try to leave the city but will rather assist in being there to reveal other criminals at the cost of increasing crime himself still. This setting will enable the AI to benefit from turning one criminal to an informant in each city. No more than one should be necessary.
    • UNITAI_SEE_INVISIBLE Need to make a generalized See Invisible type but the trick will be to make the city/stack request the right type of see invisible without having to make a new AI for each type.
    • UNITAI_PURSUE An AI for finishing off surviving stragglers after a fight that probably survived due to withdraw. Only used in fight or flight. Focuses on speed, terrain movement, attack strength and pursuit. Darts out to take out weak and easily killed units as far as it can then return back from.
    • UNITAI_RECOVER Develop for the purpose of the advanced property system. Don't stress on it until then. You'd think that law enforcement units would develop this but I'm thinking that a line of Psychology promos on Healers would better be suited to crime recovery. Perhaps correctional officers may be good with this role though.
      Note that when advanced property systems are in place, I'll have to consider how the AI may use diseased units to spread the disease to the enemy and would also need to consider how to have a unit react to being diseased on a variety of AI settings.
  • Review AI

    • UNIT_AI_SPY Some criminals may be built so as to go infiltrate, uncover as much info as they can on the enemy and return with it, then go back out and do it again. The spy AI has been given to support this so I'll need to figure out if it helps. Additionally, Criminals with this purpose should select their promos with care.
    • UNIT_AI_ATTACK Some ruffians may gain this AI. I want to understand what it's really intended to mean. If it means they can attack any targets they can survive attacking then it would be a good fit. They should attempt to group somewhat… perhaps join other groups. I took Attack City out of their specific AI types because city attack armies shouldn't be ammassing huge amounts of crime while they build and await attack. These units are very good at spreading crime to the plot so better at going after everything they can massed as much as possible. However, if Attack unit groups would keep them potentially from entering enemy lands due to others in the group then we need a new Ruffian AI - which we may benefit from anyhow. Though Pillage may cover it it may also suffer the same issue.
    • UNITAI_PILLAGE_COUNTER Dogs have this setting… perhaps it is the counterstrike I'm looking for. To an extent. May need to go on Law Enforcement as well.
    • UNITAI_PILLAGE : Ensure it works well for all units that retain this setting.
  • Project: Split Barbs and Animals
  • Project: Cleanup during compat breakage. - only have one problem with indexes and maps and scenarios now.
  • Project: Tag review to see what I can streamline for data usage. Important due to the save breaking aspect this will represent.
  • Project: Arrest Trial Segment.
  • Gradually further initialize the Ideas project.
All in orange I've decided to leave until next version development cycle.
 
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But one thing I'm looking to address is the thing you keep bringing up which is to make it possible for law enforcement units to occasionally arrest local criminals. There's quite a few projects like these involved in the overall plan. And land blockades has now been added to that list.

I really think we need processes like Research/Wealth/etc for Crime Fighting/Disease Control/etc.

Part of this project may also be to finally work out the details of the advanced disease system so that it becomes a more generic system that can account for an equally advanced crime outbreak mechanism. And again, more specialist types could play into that very well.

I have my own views on that and want something similar to EusebiusWorldReligion-Revival mods implementation but my last attempt was thwarted by the disease property. I have sorted out what I can do there now and would like to get a prototype mod in place soonish.

As for the goody huts... we'll see but I don't think I'll be able to get much skin on that since when I tend to go to address something I rarely give it little patches but a complete rethink of how we can really go about things. I would consider it part of the multi-map project to try to resolve it so part of developing the later side of the game.

Unfortunately it is broken now. It needs fixing or the goody islands will need to be removed to get rid of the bugs. :(

edit I need help on getting the Mapinguari units sorted out. They need to be very strong defensive units against all attackers except siege but not in cities or forts. They should be week attack units. Currently they are not getting the right promotions so I must have the combat class stuff wrong.

I also need help on the Traditions and Doctrines idea we are reusing from Realism Invictus. The traditions are no problem but the Doctrines are confusing to me and those are where the main special promotions lines are
 
I need help on getting the Mapinguari units sorted out. They need to be very strong defensive units against all attackers except siege but not in cities or forts. They should be week attack units. Currently they are not getting the right promotions so I must have the combat class stuff wrong.
Just an example:
  • High base strength
  • -50% attack strength (iAttackCombatModifier)
  • -50% VS siege
  • -50% city defense

What promotions are they supposed to have access to? Or rather what promotions are they getting that they shouldn't?
 
I also need help on the Traditions and Doctrines idea we are reusing from Realism Invictus. The traditions are no problem but the Doctrines are confusing to me and those are where the main special promotions lines are

From memory, as I have not played RI for a couple of years or more.

Traditions are like National Wonders - every Civ. can build them.

You get one special promotion.

Doctrines are like World Wonders - can only be built by one Civ.

You get a unique special promotion which can be upgraded 2 more times.


Obviously since I last played RI, changes may have been made.
 
Oh I would also like to get the animal resources on random maps only appearing where the units of that type spawn. I think this may be my top priority as it will fix a number of flow on problems.

I'm not sure what you're saying is so broken about goody islands...

They always get the prehistoric era units if they spawn units etc. Ie they don't change with era like the land ones do. They also have Python code to convert said land units into sea units.

From memory, as I have not played RI for a couple of years or more.

Traditions are like National Wonders - every Civ. can build them.

You get one special promotion.

Doctrines are like World Wonders - can only be built by one Civ.

You get a unique special promotion which can be upgraded 2 more times.


Obviously since I last played RI, changes may have been made.

Exactly right. The problem is how to match them to C2C combat as the RI ones often cover a range of C2C combat classes. IE we have split the combat classes further than RI has.
 
They always get the prehistoric era units if they spawn units etc. Ie they don't change with era like the land ones do. They also have Python code to convert said land units into sea units.
How exactly would you like it to work. That probably won't be too tough to program. Would you like a tag that lets you define the unit by the era/and/or domain that should be found under that particular result? Should we do two or three of them so that we have one for the settler/worker/military result? Maybe a fourth for hostiles?

This probably wouldn't be a tough project at all because there's NO complicated AI to go with it.
 
How exactly would you like it to work. That probably won't be too tough to program. Would you like a tag that lets you define the unit by the era/and/or domain that should be found under that particular result? Should we do two or three of them so that we have one for the settler/worker/military result? Maybe a fourth for hostiles?

This probably wouldn't be a tough project at all because there's NO complicated AI to go with it.

1) The land one works fine, which means that if the sea one was using the same thing it should also but it doesn't. It only gets the prehistoric land units which I convert into ships if they are barbarians but leave as is if they are placed for the player.

I have no idea what is going on. Why does it work for one definition but not the other?

2) Similarly the unit tag noBadGoodyHuts works for land units but not for sea units.
 
Aren't sea goody huts completely defined in python anyhow?

Not really and not the bit that determines what comes from the hut.

1) Placement of sea goody huts is currently by Python because letting the engine do it reduces the number on land.

2) What you get from popping a goody hut is done by the goody mechanism. The no bad goody tag on ships is ignored by the dll. Change to the units produced does not work on sea but does on land.

3) Conversion of the land barbarian units to ships is done by the python afterwards.
 
They always get the prehistoric era units if they spawn units etc. Ie they don't change with era like the land ones do.

Yeah, it's kinda annoying that you're in the Classical Era and you still get Stone Throwers that will be Mauled the moment you end your turn, It's a waste of a perfectly fine Goody hut :(
 
Yeah, it's kinda annoying that you're in the Classical Era and you still get Stone Throwers that will be Mauled the moment you end your turn, It's a waste of a perfectly fine Goody hut :(

Or you get one that is in such a location that it does not have a land tile it can go to if your ship can't carry cargo, like Mountain tiles.

JosEPh
 
Or you get one that is in such a location that it does not have a land tile it can go to if your ship can't carry cargo, like Mountain tiles.

JosEPh
Well, then it just get teleported to the closest landmass you have a city on at the start of next turn (yes, this does happen every time a land unit ends it turn on a water tile). So getting land units from the islands isn't that bad a bug.
 
Well, then it just get teleported to the closest landmass you have a city on at the start of next turn (yes, this does happen every time a land unit ends it turn on a water tile). So getting land units from the islands isn't that bad a bug.

Did not know that. I've never had one teleport before. They usually get destroyed by sea animals.

JosEPh
 
Not really and not the bit that determines what comes from the hut.

1) Placement of sea goody huts is currently by Python because letting the engine do it reduces the number on land.

2) What you get from popping a goody hut is done by the goody mechanism. The no bad goody tag on ships is ignored by the dll. Change to the units produced does not work on sea but does on land.

3) Conversion of the land barbarian units to ships is done by the python afterwards.
I'll look into it then.
 
Or you get one that is in such a location that it does not have a land tile it can go to if your ship can't carry cargo, like Mountain tiles.

JosEPh

Well, then it just get teleported to the closest landmass you have a city on at the start of next turn (yes, this does happen every time a land unit ends it turn on a water tile). So getting land units from the islands isn't that bad a bug.

Did not know that. I've never had one teleport before. They usually get destroyed by sea animals.

JosEPh

Something has happened and they don't nescessarily teleport to the nearest land any more but drown instead sometimes:(
 
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