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[Maniac]

The Human Hive
for a second I considered suggesting Sprawling trait from FfH, but then I realised I really hate that trait

I was planning to give that trait to the Caretakers.

* No Tech Brokering is turned on for all factions, but Zak and/or Roze is exempt from it.

That sounds cool if you're playing Zak or Roze. However a problem I see: if I was playing against them, I think I'd never want to trade with those guys then.

* Morgan is exempt from the new rule regarding access paths for trade - he can enter trade agreements with anyone he has Open Borders with.

But that would just turn their trade route advantage into an automatic bonus, and as a consequence not affect their playstyle at all. Needing open borders with everyone to put their trade advantage to maximal use, that actually affects how the Morganites approach the game.

What if the Morganites spread a number of different corporations, whereas the Believers would only want to spread their one "true" religion?

That doesn't change the similarity that with both factins you'd be spending a lot of your playtime moving units to other civs's bases. IMO Boooriiiiiiiiing.

To counter this, the Morgans should only get these bonuses for corporate offices in Factions they have open borders with. This would drastically change the game mechanics for the Morganite faction making playing them all about trying to keep things friendly and spreading corporations as much as possible.

How is the result different from just giving the Morganites a bonus to all their trade routes? That results in the same drive to seek open borders with as many people as possible.

I will try to think of more suggestion but since I have no idea what is feasible to mod I'm not sure how much of it will be useful...

I know I just said you don't need to let your imagination be restricted by what's possible in the XML, but I have no ideas how to translate any of your ideas so far to game code. :-s

 

[slugwalk]

That doesn't change the similarity that with both factins you'd be spending a lot of your playtime moving units to other civs's bases. IMO Boooriiiiiiiiing.

How is the result different from just giving the Morganites a bonus to all their trade routes? That results in the same drive to seek open borders with as many people as possible.

The biggest difference I see is that the satellite corporate offices would still provide some benefits to those factions with many resources. The point when playing the Morgans would be to only spread corporations to those factions that wouldn't get much benefit from them. I also think that the negative effects of corporate offices should then be reduced, making the biggest negative effect strengthening the Morganites.
The Morganites would then have a vested interest in controlling as much of the resources as possible reducing the benefits for the other factions. This could change the whole focus of the Morganite game, making their goals all about spreading their corporations and controlling resources. For example, they wouldn't normally want to go to war, but it might be worth it to them to capture some resources. The way I imagine it, the Morganites shouldn't really want a huge empire, but should have a goal of controlling and benefiting from the economies of the other factions. Culminating in an economic victory where they finally take direct public control.
The numbers of corporations and their exact benefits would need to be worked out to make it interesting but still keep it balanced.
For the Angels I think there should also be a similar drastic change in game play, but focused on espionage rather than economics.
This would actually make these factions much more interesting than they were in SMAC.

 

[CarnivalBizarre]

That doesn't change the similarity that with both factins you'd be spending a lot of your playtime moving units to other civs's bases. IMO Boooriiiiiiiiing.

There is a button you know, so that a unit spread religions/corporations automatically. Just a click...

Also, your comment is almost describing warfare in this game as well

 

[orlanth]

That sounds cool if you're playing Zak or Roze. However a problem I see: if I was playing against them, I think I'd never want to trade with those guys then.

That's good, you should want to somewhat think twice before trading data with Roze in particular.. The rub is they are also the most likely to have an exclusive on the more advanced techs that you seriously need. Bump up their leaderhead tech trade proclivity, and they might make you an offer you can't refuse

But that would just turn their trade route advantage into an automatic bonus, and as a consequence not affect their playstyle at all. Needing open borders with everyone to put their trade advantage to maximal use, that actually affects how the Morganites approach the game.

No, they would still need to have open borders, but they could get around the geographic limitations to resource trades that others face (so wouldn't need to have a globe-spanning empire), and be able to obstruct others' trade with their territory while maintaining OB with them. Alternatively, maybe they could earn more of an energy tariff from other factions' resource trade that has to pass through their territory.

I'm not sure where to stand on the corporations issue - is the earlier concept of the Data Angels, Free Drones etc as corporations definitely out, & if so what kind of corps do you envision?

I was playing with the idea of a corporation and/or building that requires and consumes one of each DNA resource from the city in exchange for some powerful Affinity Gene resource or effect; or does likewise with all Algae resources. Another idea is a Grand Menagerie type deal where you sacrifice one of every type of captured Native Life to create a unique DNA resource or Wonder. I just have no idea what said miracle effects should be.. Any ideas?

 

[Maniac]

The biggest difference I see is that the satellite corporate offices would still provide some benefits to those factions with many resources.

Trade routes are also mutually beneficial.

No, they would still need to have open borders, but they could get around the geographic limitations to resource trades that others face

I believe that would make them less interesting to play.

I'm not sure where to stand on the corporations issue - is the earlier concept of the Data Angels, Free Drones etc as corporations definitely out, & if so what kind of corps do you envision?

Angels/Drones as a corporation was never an accepted concept to begin with. I'm not sure what corporations to include, if they should be included at all. Some ideas I had are: the Longevity Vaccine (bonus for DNA resources), Cloudscoop Enterprises (Helium), Xenobrew Inc. (fungal gin, brilliance), Mercenary Guild (boost with chemical elements, allows recruitment of mercenaries with gold), the Pet Project (replaces McDonalds...), the Network Backbone (crystals, alien artifact)

It should be noted: personally I find corporations a useful game concept because they make it useful to have more than of a resource type. Making having more than one of the same resource useful, does not have to happen through a corporation with its missionary mechanism though. A building buildable in all bases which gives the corporation effects also does the trick. As does a national wonder.


Anyway, I've pondered the relationship between Morgan and resources. Given Morgan's background as an African diamond warlord, it does seem within his psychology to place a heavy emphasis on control of raw materials. However if I would just give the faction a bonus for controlling any resource, that would drive them to be a warlike faction. Which is the opposite of their I assume desired gameplay. I ended up with this idea to make Morgan more unique:

Morgan Industries' Headquarters building automatically gives an unspreadable Morgan Industries corporation in the base. The corporation gives mineral and energy benefit for having multiple Crystals, Oil, Silver, Gold, Uranium, Helium, Iridium & Rubidium resources. Basically all the "raw material" resources.

The corporation being unique to Morgan Industries means ICS won't be encouraged, that the faction can be succesful with fewer bases than the other factions. Perhaps a unique Morganic Great Tycoon great person unit could spread the corporation. A rare but cool event.

A second idea: perhaps the Morgan Industries could also provide benefits for the Mineral and Energy bonus resources! As the Morganites are the only faction who could profit from having these resources, the AI should be willing to trade them away for free. As long as Morgan maintains decent relations, he can profit from other factions' resources without having to go to war to get them.

 

[slugwalk]

Trade routes are also mutually beneficial.

It should be noted: personally I find corporations a useful game concept because they make it useful to have more than of a resource type. Making having more than one of the same resource useful, does not have to happen through a corporation with its missionary mechanism though. A building buildable in all bases which gives the corporation effects also does the trick. As does a national wonder.

Anyway, I've pondered the relationship between Morgan and resources. Given Morgan's background as an African diamond warlord, it does seem within his psychology to place a heavy emphasis on control of raw materials. However if I would just give the faction a bonus for controlling any resource, that would drive them to be a warlike faction. Which is the opposite of their I assume desired gameplay. I ended up with this idea to make Morgan more unique:

Morgan Industries' Headquarters building automatically gives an unspreadable Morgan Industries corporation in the base. The corporation gives mineral and energy benefit for having multiple Crystals, Oil, Silver, Gold, Uranium, Helium, Iridium & Rubidium resources. Basically all the "raw material" resources.

The corporation being unique to Morgan Industries means ICS won't be encouraged, that the faction can be succesful with fewer bases than the other factions. Perhaps a unique Morganic Great Tycoon great person unit could spread the corporation. A rare but cool event.

A second idea: perhaps the Morgan Industries could also provide benefits for the Mineral and Energy bonus resources! As the Morganites are the only faction who could profit from having these resources, the AI should be willing to trade them away for free. As long as Morgan maintains decent relations, he can profit from other factions' resources without having to go to war to get them.

The reason I like corporations over trade routes is that they can provide different benefits than just trade, and as you mentioned later, they provide benefits for having multiples of resources. I also like needing corporations (rather than buildings) to get the benefits because of the headquarters that provides increasing benefits with the spread of the corporation. This helps keep the Morganites from being warlike (I agree that this faction should be discouraged from making war) by providing a benefit to spreading the corporation to other factions they have OB agreements with. This might be reinforced by making the corporation start up costs in other factions equal to those in Morganite cities.

I think Morgan would be smart enough to see the benefits of all of Planet's resources, not just the physical materials. Except perhaps for the alien resources.

I'm not certain that I feel that the Morganites should be the only ones to start corporations, but I think that they should have one or more that are uniquely theirs, and that compete with all other corporations. This way the Morganites always found at least one corporation (probably with superconducting fiber allowing open borders).
The way I see it, the Morganites are the only faction I see with any sort of corporate culture. Corporations seem very alien to all the others, something that might be permitted but not encouraged. In fact, the Morganites see them selves as a corporation, and so should have ways of working within other factions rather than only interacting with them in nation-like ways (war, trade agreements, etc.).