Vaccine Suspicion thread (split from Trump in Charge)

Archon8 said:
My position is not that the Covid vaccines were unsafe, rather that it was a reasonable position to choose to not immediately be vaccinated by them.
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Certainly - I know several people who refused to be vaccinated and more that only agreed reluctantly after a while.

But by now the issue should be settled.
 
I got a COVID vaccine but I find it a bit odd that any questioning about it is so taboo.

The US government has legalized tens of thousands of questionable drugs, producers and chemicals demonstrated to cause harm.

Given the pressure of a fast rollout and profit to whoever got to sell it it's not absurd to wonder if corners has been cut.
 
Curious as they care so much about the long term effect of vaccines but not about the long term effect of other medicaments, in fact way more dangerous. I bet many of the antivaccine crowd take ibuprofens or paracetmols daily as if they were caramels.
 
We profited from that - it was (is) a gold mine :D

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Archon8 said:
My position is not that the Covid vaccines were unsafe, rather that it was a reasonable position to choose to not immediately be vaccinated by them.
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Totally agree.
WITH the caveat that, during an epidemic, restrictions on unvaccinated people can be legitimate in order for them to not infect other people.
So you can refuse to get vaccinated (which was, actually, always allowed), BUT you have to accept the constraints that it will implies (wearing a mask, not taking mass transit and so on).
 
Akka said:
Totally agree.
WITH the caveat that, during an epidemic, restrictions on unvaccinated people can be legitimate in order for them to not infect other people.
So you can refuse to get vaccinated (which was, actually, always allowed), BUT you have to accept the constraints that it will implies (wearing a mask, not taking mass transit and so on).
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We agree in essence, with just perhaps small disagreement about which constraints would be applied.
 
Archon8 said:
We agree in essence, with just perhaps small disagreement about which constraints would be applied.
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Well that depends on where you live, in a small, densely populated area we had no choice, we had to get the unvaccinated off the street, if you live out on the prairie somewhere, who cares.
 
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Looking at the current panorama, I wonder if it would be possible to eradicate smallpox or polio today.
 
Archon8 said:
I said several times that in my opinion it takes multiple years to adequately test vaccines.
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You also called it an untested treatment.

Gorbles: What untested treatment?
You: COVID vaccines

Archon8 said:
My position is not that the Covid vaccines were unsafe, rather that it was a reasonable position to choose to not immediately be vaccinated by them.
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Oh sure. But don't complain when there are consequences to that decision.

Your solution to test the vaccine for years would have meant a lot of people dying from Covid. Do you think that would be the better decision to make?
 
Ziggy Stardust said:
Oh sure. But don't complain when there are consequences to that decision.

Your solution to test the vaccine for years would have meant a lot of people dying from Covid. Do you think that would be the better decision to make?
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Can you stop taking my statements out of context, please? My position is that it takes years to properly test a vaccine, therefore it is a reasonable position for someone to be unwilling to immediately be vaccinated irrespective of the broader situation. Others are still welcome to accept the vaccine as they see fit. But for big pharmaceutical companies to come up with a vaccine then immediately say it's safe, then the government to actively censor dissenters... I'm never going to say that someone has to accept that.
 
Archon8 said:
Can you stop taking my statements out of context, please?
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I am not. How am I taking your statement out of context?

Archon8

Post in thread 'Vaccine Suspicion thread (split from Trump in Charge)'

Gorbles said:
What untested treatment?
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COVID vaccines. The crux of the issue is I consider it essential freedoms for someone to be able to reject a vaccine for themselves if that is their choice, and they should be able to freely express their opinion of the vaccines without the government attempting to censor them. Trying to force people to accept vaccines in order to enrich large pharmaceutical companies and censoring their ability to dissent is something I consider oligarchical, and was one of a great many reasons I gladly voted for Trump.

Archon8 said:
My position is that it takes years to properly test a vaccine, therefore it is a reasonable position for someone to be unwilling to immediately be vaccinated irrespective of the broader situation.
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And to that I said: sure. Just don't complain when there are consequences to that decision.

Archon8 said:
Others are still welcome to accept the vaccine as they see fit. But for big pharmaceutical companies to come up with a vaccine then immediately say it's safe
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And there you go again. They didn't "immediately say it's safe"
Can you stop lying about that please? The vaccines were tested.

Clinical trials for COVID-19 vaccines were carried out before they were approved by governments and rolled-out to the public. Pfizer’s trial enrolled over 45,000 participants across the globe and Oxford recruited over 23,000 people in the UK, Brazil, and South Africa.
 
Ziggy Stardust said:
Clinical trials for COVID-19 vaccines were carried out before they were approved by governments and rolled-out to the public. Pfizer’s trial enrolled over 45,000 participants across the globe and Oxford recruited over 23,000 people in the UK, Brazil, and South Africa.
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For the last time, I do not consider it to be possible to adequately test vaccines in such a short amount of time. Yes, they said they did clinical trials, I'm sure they did. I'm sure that there were no severe short term problems. However, in my opinion it is not possible to know what the long term (5-10 years later) effects will be until that time has actually elapsed.
 
Thorgalaeg said:
Looking at the current panorama, I wonder if it would be possible to eradicate smallpox or polio today.
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That's a pretty good (and scary :scared:) thought exercise... I 'm a little hesitant in saying no... our current political climate makes eradication of disease much more difficult than it would have been in past decades... despite medical progress... which is sad:sad:
 
Archon8 said:
The law is, and should remain, that as an adult it is your personal choice whether or not to receive vaccinations. I am strongly opposed to the government being able to punish citizens for healthcare choices.
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In that case, the law should provision when you choose not to, and as a result infect others, who make fall ill, suffer complications, and / or die. Personal responsibility doesn't stop at the person in a society, unless you isolate for the entirety of your life and never engage with another human being.

And in that case, if you do? That's your life and you're entirely free to it. But that doesn't tend to ever be the case.

Narz said:
I got a COVID vaccine but I find it a bit odd that any questioning about it is so taboo.
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Who's been prevented from asking any questions?

People disagreeing over opinion doesn't make said opinion taboo.
 

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This just in. Youtube is the government.

I wonder if Trump will show me a more varied range of tubes. Biden's have been very repetative.
 
Gorbles said:
YouTube is a private platform and can do whatever it wants. It isn't the government, and it isn't CFC.
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I consider the Biden administration's actions to have violated the First Amendment.
 

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