Value of "Air Defense Str."

[Camber]

In the Editor, under Rules --> Units, there is a box for the Air Defense Str. of a unit. This is 1 for Destroyer and Cruiser, 2 for Flak, Carrier and Battleship, 3 for AEGIS Cruiser, and 4 for Mobile SAM.

Could someone authoritatively comment on how this value affects interceptions of air missions?

Specifically I want to know whether a value of "2" is equal to a Fighter with Attack 2 on an Air Superiority mission, or whether it means something else entirely.

 

[The Last Conformist]

I'm fairly sure it means something else entirely, but more than that, I have little idea.

 

[Patroklos]

I think it chance of interception, not the chance for a kill which is what the attack value is.

Not that I am authoritative

 

[Bleser]

AAA works much differently than air superiority missions do... if AAA fire reacts, it is ALWAYS successful, as in it does not just damage the bomer - it is destoyed. This is what makes it so powerful, in my mind, and I don't know why you would ever build fighters. They first have to calculate whether they are going to intercept the bomber or not, then whether they shoot it down (or get shot down themselves), and only go once per turn (I think), whereas one AAA gun can "shoot" multiple times per turn.

 

[Enkidu Warrior]

Originally posted by Bleser
This is what makes it so powerful, in my mind, and I don't know why you would ever build fighters.

Flak/SAM's etc only defend one square. Fighters are necessary to defend squares in the city radius, aswell as to defend naval units if you don't keep them in a stack. Flak is far superior at defending a single square however.

 

[Bleser]

Originally posted by Enkidu Warrior


Flak/SAM's etc only defend one square. Fighters are necessary to defend squares in the city radius, aswell as to defend naval units if you don't keep them in a stack. Flak is far superior at defending a single square however.

But it seems with the new AI strategy in Conquests, they only target your cities while bombing (except for a few resources you might have roads to), so this is why they are much more useful than fighters.

 

[Juhahu]

But who plays against AI anyway? At least I am not

Flaks and mobile SAMs will damage bombers. This is a tested fact.

Immobile SAM improvements only destroy planes.

 

[globester]

i'd think it'd work something like bombard strength :/

 

[player1 fanatic]

It's AA vs defense value of your bomber.

So Flak with AA of 2 has 50% to destory bomber, since it has defense of 2 ( 2/(2+2) ).
And Destroyer has just 33% to destroy that same bomber ( 1/(1+2) ).

 

[Dogmeat]

Flaks dont shoot down Jack s*** no offense to those who likes flaks. I experienced this in an epic game. My citizens were sitting ducks even with flaks in the cities. They bombarded for 10 turns 2 cities crammed with flaks and I didnt shoot down one of them.
Fighters get a 50% chance so they are much better. Plus they can defend more squares and they can do various other missions as well. But when you get Sams its a different story because they are twice as likely to shoot down planes.

 

[Enkidu Warrior]

Originally posted by Dogmeat
Flaks dont shoot down Jack s*** no offense to those who likes flaks. I experienced this in an epic game. My citizens were sitting ducks even with flaks in the cities. They bombarded for 10 turns 2 cities crammed with flaks and I didnt shoot down one of them.
Fighters get a 50% chance so they are much better. Plus they can defend more squares and they can do various other missions as well. But when you get Sams its a different story because they are twice as likely to shoot down planes.

Flak is much superior because a Fighter on air superiority has a chance to intercept 1 bomber only, whereas a Flak can shoot down endless numbers of bombers. Not sure about your experiences with not shooting down any bombers, there may have been some sort of problem.

 

[haggi]

I agree w/dogmeat, i have loaded cities with mobile sam, fighters (6 of each) & sam improvement and the bombers still wreak havoc. The AI air defense certainly takes out more of my bombers than me yet I have more AA defenses, go figure.

 

[Jaybe]

haggi, I figure you were the victim of a string of "unfortunate" random numbers.

 

[Enkidu Warrior]

Originally posted by haggi
I agree w/dogmeat, i have loaded cities with mobile sam, fighters (6 of each) & sam improvement and the bombers still wreak havoc. The AI air defense certainly takes out more of my bombers than me yet I have more AA defenses, go figure.

In theory that city would totally chew up any bombers. Are you talking about Stealth Bombers?

 

[haggi]

It seemed to happen regularly, what numbers of sams & fighters do you have in your cities?

 

[haggi]

Yes, I was talking about Stealth Bombers, I cant recall my strike rate for ordinary bombers

 

[Red Boxer]

When playing the "War in the Pacific Conquest" I was playing as the Japanese Empire and found the Flaks and in general anything with AA support to be an area of hazard. Their attack sound became a dreaded noise as my bombers pressed the attack against Hawaii. They are a bit random but totally destruction from my experience

 

[Enkidu Warrior]

Originally posted by haggi
Yes, I was talking about Stealth Bombers, I cant recall my strike rate for ordinary bombers

You're asking a bit too much of your anti-air if you expect it to shoot down stealth bombers. I recommend a strategic nuclear strike .

 

[The Last Conformist]

Hm. I'm playtesting Mr Black's Iran-Iraq War scenario, and in the first couple of dozen turns, enemy aircraft blasted my cities with Flak with impunity, while recently they've got shot down with fair regularity. I just realized I installed the 1.13 patch somewhere there in the middle - more than coincidence, perhaps?

 

[Grille]

Originally posted by player1 fanatic
It's AA vs defense value of your bomber.

So Flak with AA of 2 has 50% to destory bomber, since it has defense of 2 ( 2/(2+2) ).
And Destroyer has just 33% to destroy that same bomber ( 1/(1+2) ).

Hmm, maybe I got something wrong, but I don't think Flak (w/ ADS=2) has a 50% chance to destroy a bomber.
I guess that the defense value of air units doesn't matter in this regard (e.g. stealth bombers *can* be shot down, but they do not go down automatically when attacking a Flak), respectively:
I *think* the RNG simply draws a number and just compares it somehow to the ADS value of the SAM-type unit. If the number is in favour of the SAM-type unit, aircraft is shot down (totally destroyed - not just damaged) - if SAM misses, the aircraft will bomb a unit on that tile.

Then again, I got no idea what ADS exactly means. ADS=2 doesn't *feel* like a mere 2% chance of succes for a Flak (??), also you could set ADS>100 in the editor. (Well, may be the editor just unlogically accepts high values, but automatically caps these to the maximum value possible?)
For a test, I set ADS to 1000 for the SAM unit: success rate was 100% (that is, in a sample of about 100 bombers/stealth bombers).
Another question is if defense bonus counts in.

This is valid for sure: a single SAM-type unit can shoot down several bombers per turn- AFAIK a fighter on AS can only intercept once per turn and there's a risk the fighter gets lost.