Vanilla Egypt was way underrated

[rgp151]

I never really saw anyone give Egypt much love, but honestly, they were a great civ in Vanilla, though they may be overshadowed now. On paper maybe they don't look too great, but she was actually very powerful.

When you think about it, the most powerful resource in the game is Gold. Egypt is really great because of two complementary features: 1) Extra Gold from trade routes and 2) 15% discount on districts and wonders (if near a river).

But think about it, most districts and wonders you make, especially the ones that matter, are near rivers.

The way I played Egypt for Science Victory is this:
1) Focus on Commercial Hubs, build them in every city (still open with 2 Campuses, but after that go hard for Commercial Hubs)
2) Make lots of international trade routes once you get past the initial setup with internal routes.
3) Use trade route cards to maximize their value.
4) Use Meritocracy as your main source of Culture, don't build any Theater Squares.
5) Wonders to go for are Ruhr Valley, Forbidden City, Big Ben, and Colosseum. (also Petra will often be good with Egypt's starts).
6) Buy virtually everything that is possible to buy.

Firstly, note that 2 of the 4 important wonders have to be built next to a river. The other two can be.

Note that you will get a 15% discount on virtually every Commercial Hub you make and also you can get that 15% discount on Space Ports, which is a significant advantage.

By building lots of districts you maximize Meritocracy. Almost all of your production will go into districts and district projects, because you will buy almost all of your buildings and units. Since you spend virtually no time building buildings or units, you will have time to do District Projects like Campus Research Grants, etc.

The governments you want are of course Classical Republic > Merchant Republic > Communism > Democracy.

By the time you finish Big Ben you should have at least 7 or 8K gold on hand, to give you then 14-16K at minimum, which you can then spend to speed yourself along. After that time you should be able to bring in between 300 to 600 gold per turn, which can buy a lot of stuff.

Never miss a Great Person because you can buy them easily. The only ones that matter are the Science and Engineering ones. You will get lots of Great Merchants.

But basically, Egypt can get more gold faster than anyone else in Vanilla, and ultimately Gold is what matters most. People say its production, but not really.

The only things you really need to build are Districts, Wonders and Projects. Egypt can get a 15% discount on all Districts and Wonders, in facts its easy to get that discount like 95% of the time. Then with all your gold, you buy everything else there is. It can make for a very fast game.

Maybe Pericles is better for the massive amount of Culture he can get. It's true that with this strategy you won't race through the Culture tree, but you sill go pretty fast with Meritocracy and building lots of Districts.

 

[rgp151]

To add a little to this: Basically trade routes and Gold are extremely powerful. Egypt is the best civ in Vanilla at maximizing these resources. Generally I find that 8 to 10 cities is optimal. You want to go for Commercial Hubs in every city, and of course as many Harbors as you can build as well, even on single lake tiles.

For this strategy you really only build 4 districts: Campuses, Commercial Hubs, Industrial Zones, and Harbors, with few exceptions. First building in most cities should be a Monument or Commercial Hub, though in your first founded city sometimes Campus is best.

I typically rush 2 Campuses ASAP, which is pretty standard, but then it is important to switch to Commercial Hubs and/or Harbors. You can't delay on Commercial Hubs and Harbors, because you need those trade routs ASAP. Obviously, the ideal city location is on a river near the coast for coastal Commercial Hubs on rivers adjacent to Harbors. Also, Lake tiles are good for Harbors as well.

With 10 cities, you'll have 11 trade routes from Commercial Hubs at minimum, plus say 5 Harbors, for 16. Then you can add in several more trade routes for a variety of things such as GPs or government bonuses, etc. and you can easily hit 18-20 trade routes. I can't stress enough that you have to prioritize getting trade routes over building Campuses once you get those first two Campuses up, otherwise your gold generation will be too delayed and it messes up the flow of the strategy. I've suckered myself into building too many Campuses at first at the cost of Commercial Hubs, and its a mistake. With 15 international trade routes the Egyptian bonus nets you 60 extra gold per turn. You'll also be getting some gold from foreign trade routes to you as well. It's easy to achieve 200+ gold per turn by the mid-game and in the late game, I've gotten over 1,000 Gold per turn with various policy cards, while also keeping Meritocracy, Natural Philosophy and Rationalism in play.

Try not to build anything that can be purchased with gold. Sometimes I will early on, or right before I complete Big Ben. Also, focus on buying buildings in low production towns. Build your Industrial Zones strategically at first, not in every city. Later you can build out Industrial Zones and Workshops everywhere for the GPPs. Remember that in many cities, the only thing you will ever build are Districts. Everything else will be purchased with gold, so this is why IZs aren't that necessary. Let your few high production towns do all the building, and use gold to buy everything for low production towns. Slot in the Builder Cards between low Civic research durations and buy lots of Builders when your cards are in play, then take the Builder cards out for better bonuses most of the time. Use your chops in cities without IZs to complete Districts quickly. With the combination of the 15% District discount and chops, you can finish Districts quickly even in low production cities, then buy the rest of what's needed.

Use City Projects to get GPPs. By buying so much stuff, you'll spend much less time building, which leaves time to do projects. Of course you need Campus Research Grants, but don't forget Industrial Zone Logistics, which also generates gold.

Also, of course, use those traders strategically, by putting them in cities that need boosted production. Yes, you'll get less production from international trade routes, but you can still get some, and sometimes I'll use Domestic trade routes on a few traders if the production is really needed.

The beauty of all this is that when you need lots of production you'll have it at your fingertips. You just switch your traders to the town that needs it and switch to Domestic Trade for a cycle if you really need to rush a Wonder.

For the final Space Race, of course you put all of your traders on your city or cities that are doing the Space Race. Ideally you will have Globalization at this point to use the Ecommerce policy card, which gives +5 production and +10 gold from international trade routes.

With the combination of being able to buy GPs and utilize extra production from traders, the Space Race can go very quickly, even without Carl Sagan or Sergei Korolev.

But, interestingly, I never really saw Egypt being touted as a major civ., nor anyone really advocating this strategy. But, IMO Egypt may actually be the best civ for Science Victory in Vanilla. The 15% discount on the Spaceport alone is quite good since those take so long to typically make. It shaves generally like 5 turns off making a Spaceport. In the end you end up with a civilization that has a Campus and Commercial Hub in every single city, many Harbors, and a lot of Industrial Zones. Of course also at least one Encampment for the Space Race bonus. You typically get all of the GPs you need and have very good amenities due to the Great Merchants you'll end up with.

The best competing strategy to this I've seen is Pericles, rushing through the Civics tree and using that advantage to boost science and gold to employ a similar strategy. However, I think Egypt works out better on many maps, while Pericles maybe has a faster possible max. The thing about Pericles is of course you'll build lots of Theater Squares. You focus far less on trade routes and instead you sell your Great Works for gold. But, deals cannot always be had, and you don't have as many traders for production boosts. Also the income is less consistent. Still, Pericles is powerful too and if you get the right combination of City States he can just be insane.

I'd say the biggest weakness of this Egypt strategy is the Cultural output. But BTH, you can build Theater Squares. It may be worth it to build one or two Theater Squares and have them run Festivals. I guess Archaeology would be best since you likely won't get many Great Artists. You can then sell off your finds for more gold. Maybe I'll try that, though I've often had room to build Theaters Squares but just not done it out of principle I think if I do I'll prioritize them over IZs in a few places, but after Campuses, Commercial Hubs and Harbors. I don't think the Sphinx is worth making for this strat, as it doesn't really generate enough Culture.

As for a few other details. When it comes from Pantheons, I tend to favor City Patron Goddess or Lady of the Reeds and Marshes. In terms of City-States, of course the usual, Stockholm, Geneva, Hong Kong and Seoul are always good, as is Kumasi, but Kumasi is really huge for this strategy. If you see Kumasi, go for that for sure. Any city-state that boosts trade is good, such as Amsterdam, Bandar Brunei and even Carthage.

But, overall the combination of 15% discount on most of your districts and wonders, with extra gold from traders is actually very powerful. Ironically, I just find it far more powerful for Science Victory than Cultural, in spite of Egypt being supposedly geared toward Cultural.

Aspects of this strategy are nerfed in GS and Egypt has some other competitors that maybe are better, but its still a solid general approach with any civilization that has trade bonuses even in GS, and of course GS buffs trade in some ways as well. But the buffs in many ways make Egypt less impressive as it diminishes the relative value of the Egyptian bonus. Still Egypt is underrated even in GS IMO.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I don't know that they're the best, but they're one of my favorites to play. I keep going back to them.

edit--don't

 

[rgp151]

Yeah, in GS, arguably Spain is a better version of Egypt. As long as you can expand onto a new content fairly early you can use a similar strategy as this, but more powerful. With Spain you get 25% discount on all districts on foreign continents and a free builder and a better flat bonus of 3 Gold 2 Faith and 1 Prod, which is 9 Gold, 6 Faith and 3 Prod to foreign continents, so you can way outdo Egypt assuming you can get onto a foreign continent, but even the base 3, 2, 1 is better than Egypt's 4 gold on international trade. There are other good trading Civs as well, like Poland, Persia, Portugal, etc.

But yeah, overall, going heavy on traders is super powerful, so any civ with trade bonuses is quite good.

 

[Leyrann]

Yeah, in GS, arguably Spain is a better version of Egypt. As long as you can expand onto a new content fairly early you can use a similar strategy as this, but more powerful. With Spain you get 25% discount on all districts on foreign continents and a free builder and a better flat bonus of 3 Gold 2 Faith and 1 Prod, which is 9 Gold, 6 Faith and 3 Prod to foreign continents, so you can way outdo Egypt assuming you can get onto a foreign continent, but even the base 3, 2, 1 is better than Egypt's 4 gold on international trade. There are other good trading Civs as well, like Poland, Persia, Portugal, etc.

But yeah, overall, going heavy on traders is super powerful, so any civ with trade bonuses is quite good.

Oh man, have I got the game for you.

In fact, I'll just add it to this post.

Spain, spawn within range of Devil's Tower (the natural wonder that gives 1 production and 1 faith to adjacent tiles), and a continent split just a few tiles south of where you start - which happens to be close to the northern tundra, meaning there's an entire landmass south and almost nothing north. In other words, almost all your cities will be on a foreign continent from your capital.

Game is Deity difficulty with a very land-heavy map script (I think Lakes), but the closest AI is insanely distant (some 25 tiles) so you have incredible room to expand - if there's ever a winnable Deity game even for someone who normally plays on something like Emperor, it's this one. Purely peaceful expansion should be able to net you at least 10 cities even with the AI's bonuses.

 

[Oberinspektor Derrick]

Had an insanely good start as Egypt on deity recently, starting on desert floodplains and managing to get both Lady of the Reeds and Marshes (Desert Folklore was taken).
This by itself makes for some great tiles, but I also managed to snag Etemenanki, catapulting my game ahead to an eventual easy SV/domination hybrid game.

That being said, apart from Maryannu archers, Egypt is kind of weak these days.
On the other hand, said unique unit is probably among the strongest in the game, and I'd personally rate them higher than even Eagle warriors just for how much of a power spike they provide.

 

[rgp151]

Sounds very amusing, I may check it out. Lake Harbors can be insane. I think the conclusion I've come to is that Trade is really the most powerful aspect of Civ 6. With Spain you can get over 200 production in a city from trade alone. It's so powerful because you can move it around, etc. And the Spanish bonus is just so good, giving the mix of all the best resources. It's funny because I see lots of stuff about Spain being good for Domination or Religious victory, but again, like Egypt, I think they are best at Science. Their production is godly and with the combo of Faith and Gold you can buy anything. I mean with Spain, when you have all those inter-continental traders going to your Spaceport, you can finish those projects in no time. Don't even need the GPs.

I guess this is why, in some other threads, I don't pay much attention to Holy Sites. To me the most important thing is trade. So I tend to focus on Commercial Hubs and Harbors+Lighthouses. Getting those traders up and going is just so powerful, even with civs that don't have trade bonuses. So yeah, I'm always kind of trade heavy these days.

 

[rgp151]

Had an insanely good start as Egypt on deity recently, starting on desert floodplains and managing to get both Lady of the Reeds and Marshes (Desert Folklore was taken).
This by itself makes for some great tiles, but I also managed to snag Etemenanki, catapulting my game ahead to an eventual easy SV/domination hybrid game.

That being said, apart from Maryannu archers, Egypt is kind of weak these days.
On the other hand, said unique unit is probably among the strongest in the game, and I'd personally rate them higher than even Eagle warriors just for how much of a power spike they provide.

True, but I still hardly ever use them, because of just how they fit into everything. You need the 3 Archers for the Eureka, and the Chariots don't count, so I build Archers over the Chariots for that reason, and then they upgrade into Crossbowmen, which I don't need that many of, and they don't really help take down walled cities, so its like, meh. They can be great on defense, but who really needs that in SP, which is all I play? I think in multi they would indeed be very powerful and worth building, but in SP, I just don't often have the need and would rather make the cheaper Archers that give a Eureka.

But yeah, I think Spain is way stronger than Egypt in most cases in GS.

 

[MrRadar]

1) Focus on Commercial Hubs, build them in every city (still open with 2 Campuses, but after that go hard for Commercial Hubs)

I wonder if putting off campuses after CH could even give better results? With City Patron that's a couple more of trade routes quite early. Vanilla ruleset giving trade routes already after completing the district and not requiring a building is really beneficial for Egypt. Maryannus are only two techs away and can be unlocked early, they're great for barb control and also later conquest of a close neighbour who probably will have already completed those campuses for you.

What are your game settings, btw., meaning difficulty, speed and map type/size? Do you chop a lot? And the victory times?

This thread pushed me to start a new game, after quite some time of not playing, so I picked online speed, tiny continents map, added a couple of AI to have 6 civs, deity, vanilla ruleset, but I have also all later stuff from dlcs, so there's a close CS which gives culture for completing buildings, which is nice. Never ran an internal traderoute, managed to hook up all my cities by choosing international destinations, and a couple culture CS helped with early culture. But maybe to start a trader with an internal route would be more beneficial initially, particularly if it gives you more than 1 prod.?
I wasn't so lucky with rivers, only one quite small system, a small desert, more tundra than necessary, and Teddy and Harald as close neighbours for pillaging and conquest purposes when not trading.

All this warring means I have no partners for lux trade, and lux trade in vanilla can give you some pretty impressive gpt. In later expansions the pricing seems to have been tweaked and it is rare to get more than 12 gpt for a lux in GS, but in vanilla a friendly AI can pay you much more than that. Anyway, with no lux trade, and 12 trade routes my income post t100 is ~260gpt... and that's not enough to buy all the buildings Do a city with a harbour and CH get 2 trade routes, not 1? It is so strange to play vanilla again... but somehow so much simpler and almost more fun

 

[rgp151]

Hey Radar, I usually play Small or Standard sized map, with Continents or World Map (not true start location), either Emperor or Deity. I usually only play Deity just to prove a strategy to myself, but mostly play Emperor. My victory times are usually in the mid-200s, so nothing special.

I chop a fair amount, depending on the map of course. I'll usually build 1 sawmill on a river, but all the other forests and jungles go down, and some stone as well.

Yeah, if you plan on early conquest, then you are right, you don't need to two campuses right away necessarily.

I just finished a GS game with Spain. Man they are essentially OP. Overall I think they may be the most powerful civ in the game. Macedonia is good too for a very different style of play. But anyway, with Spain I went for the two Campuses first and didn't get onto a new continent very early. Took me a while to find it and it was far away. But even the base trade benefit from Spain is very good, nevermind the 3X bonus. I like to really try to get the GP that builds a University, as I think that really helps since it also boosts the output of Universities. I think the early campuses help with that.

The big advantage of Spain over Egypt is that the Spanish bonus works on both foreign and domestic trade routes. Usually when I do Egypt I start with domestic routes to get production going, but then switch to foreign fairly quickly, or I'll go to a CS to get a quest.

This type of strategy, whether with Egypt or Spain, of course works best if you can get a couple of good Culture CSs to supplement you civics. I actually built two Theater Squares with Spain this time, and had no Cultural CSs, in fat no really good CSs at all.

I expanded peacefully, and then did some Renaissance conquest and then late game conquest mostly just to open up better trade routes. But really, no one was even close. I was getting lots of GPs.

In the end, I had two cities, my capital and a city on a different continent, that I had about 180 production in each, both doing the Space Race. I had my traders mostly split between the two. With Spain I did internal trade routes most of the game, but switched to external when I got ecommerce.

Most of my traders when doing internal routes were getting around 6 Production and 12 gold, on top of other stuff. I think I ended the game with only 18 traders, in part because at a certain point I gave up trying to maximize them as I was running away with it anyway.

I think my income around the time I started building Big Ben was about 450 gpt. By the end of the game it was about 800 gpt. I don't recall exactly, but I think around the time I got Merchant Republic I was getting about 300 gpt. After I get Recorded History and Defensive Tactics I beeline Merchant Republic. I did also get the extra economic slot from a Great Merchant and Forbidden City, which helped a lot. I wasn't able to buy every single building, but also you don't really need to. I buy buildings in my weakest cities and build in the ones with high prod. Or I'll buy buildings in big cities as they are building Wonders, etc. (Common for Power Plants).

But the real key is buying buildings right away when they come out, especially the factory for Ruhr Valley. Universities, Research Labs, Factories and Power Plants are ones I buy the most. Government Plaza buildings are good too. Also, in GS, when you need to have buildings to get traders, once you get the ball rolling with gold, you buy the building as soon as the district finishes so you can make the new trader right away, so Markets and Lighthouses are big buys too, unless in a powerful city that can build them in a 2 or 3 turns.