Vassal almost wins a cultural victory

[Big Roy]

I'm hoping that I'm not raising an issue that has been disucssed to death on this site......

In my latest game I accepted a nearby neighbour as a vassal around 1600AD after knocking one other neibour into submission and was consequently sitting pretty high on the power chart. In reflection I should not have done this, however the deed was done and I had to live with it.

At about the mid 1800's I start to check the victory chart to see what was going on and realised that my vassal had three cities rapidly climbing the cultural chart. I had no chance of getting a win this way, and he was going to win about 20 turns ahead of my spaceship launching.

So......I looked at ways I could throw him off. I asked for all of his resources - he gave them to me. He was friendly, so if I asked for money or to change civics etc - he just said no. I could not get out of this situation.....

Eventually I had to take the frustrating route of creating a stack of spys - putting all my money into esp and then just kept his city in revolt for 30 turns. I just wanted to blow him out of the water but couldn't.

The game was capped of with Issabela winning the space race even though she launched 2 turns after me and according to the the turn before had 0 out of 5 casing loaded. Consequently, I don't know whether or not the Vassal could have won, but it seems as though it was very much possible.

I have to say, while I love this game, there is stuff into that make you just want to through your can of coke straight throught the monitor!

 

[one2tieyourshoe]

I have to say, while I love this game, there is stuff into that make you just want to through your can of coke straight throught the monitor!

I agree. There have been many times where I just sit there and stare at the monitor and wonder how the computer pulled that off.

And then other times that I take childish glee when a certain AI has a run of bad luck in regards to random events. So sorry, Justinian, to hear about your mine being destroyed again and only four turns after the bandits attacked. Tooooo bad.

 

[Refar]

I don't know whether or not the Vassal could have won, but it seems as though it was very much possible.

He could have won. That's the whole point of Vassalage (at least for the vassal) - you protect him, while is pursuing his goals.

Can be a pain sometimes.

 

[Big Roy]

He could have won. That's the whole point of Vassalage (at least for the vassal) - you protect him, while is pursuing his goals.

Yes but........If i change my mind, I should just be able to remove my protection and blow him out of the water - especially if he is going to win the game!

 

[one2tieyourshoe]

Yes but........If i change my mind, I should just be able to remove my protection and blow him out of the water - especially if he is going to win the game!

That's why I got annoyed and turned off vassal states. It makes me mad that I can't either peacefully absorb him and his country into my empire or decide that it is a fine day for him to die easily.

 

[Refar]

I fully agree from "common sense" point of view.

Not sure form the game point of view: this might be exploitable, because in that case having a vassal woulld have no downside at all - you can vassalize him, keep him as long as it benefits you, and then just get rid of him on a keystroke...

 

[HerrDoktor]

Hmmm... I'm really not sure, but aren't forced vassals treated as permanent alliances regarding victory conditions? That is, if you vassal wins, you win.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

No they aren't


Although there really should be an option to allow Vassals to "upgrade" to a Permanent Alliance if they (and You) Want

 

[Refar]

I once lost to a capitulated vassal via space, so i guess it's a no...

 

[one2tieyourshoe]

Although there really should be an option to allow Vassals to "upgrade" to a Permanent Alliance if they (and You) Want

Maybe some sort of event or something like that where you can choose to keep the vassal underfoot, upgrade him to an ally free of vassalization, or let him go his own way.

 

[TheLastOne36]

The game was capped of with Issabela winning the space race even though she launched 2 turns after me and according to the the turn before had 0 out of 5 casing loaded. Consequently, I don't know whether or not the Vassal could have won, but it seems as though it was very much possible.

that means she had a 0% chance of a succesful launch. are you sure she didn't atleast have 1 casing?

 

[Big Roy]

that means she had a 0% chance of a succesful launch. are you sure she didn't atleast have 1 casing?

No, she could have easily built 1 or 2 on the close of turn, but that should have reduced her speed to the Win???? Not sure about this. Either way she launched after me, had an incomplete rocket and still beat me even though mine was fully complete. I did a reload and raised her capital......all she deserved!

 

[HerrDoktor]

No they aren't


Although there really should be an option to allow Vassals to "upgrade" to a Permanent Alliance if they (and You) Want

So that's REALLY stupid.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

Not sure form the game point of view: this might be exploitable, because in that case having a vassal woulld have no downside at all

I wouldn't have a problem with this, considering what hard work it tends to be to get a vassal.

 

[HerrDoktor]

I wouldn't have a problem with this, considering what hard work it tends to be to get a vassal.

It's just ill thought, bugged. Capitulation means total surrender. That is, the vassal has lost, period, unless (s)he can severely outgrow you or you are being pwnilated, (s)he's out of the game. His/er lands counts for domination AND conquest victory. So there's no point in your vassal being able to win over you.

 

[one2tieyourshoe]

Capitulation means total surrender. That is, the vassal has lost, period.

Exactly. He's had his people stampeded and cattle raped. His cities have felt my wrath, my nukes and tanks and gunships. He's in no position to win.

 

[Big Roy]

Yep - the human player can't capitulate because if he does he has lost. Same for the AI. If not then allow the Human to Capitulate and try to win from there - it can't happen because then it would be too easy to win. Just find the most powerfull AI, capitulate for protection and tech your way to a win.

 

[Infantry#14]

I think the vassal-master agreement should expire for a set of turns, say 50.

That way, the ai has a slim chance while protects the interest of the human master.

 

[BalbanesBeoulve]

I will always take my opponent's capital before I vassalize him. It's always full goodies, settled great people, wonders, military academies, science academies, scottland yard. Holy cities are also obvious targets. As long as you take those it should be almost impossible for a vassal to be able to get enough other cities to get legendary in time.

 

[HerrDoktor]

I will always take my opponent's capital before I vassalize him. It's always full goodies, settled great people, wonders, military academies, science academies, scottland yard. Holy cities are also obvious targets. As long as you take those it should be almost impossible for a vassal to be able to get enough other cities to get legendary in time.

I generally go a step ahead of this and destroy or conquer any nearby cities which turn into new capitals, so that my new cities can have a breathing space to work at. Nothing worse than have a useless culturally drowned city right inside the Vassal's territory, revolting each 10 turns - that turns liberating in almost mandatory.