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Vassal Liberation

Discussion in 'General Balance' started by Rekk, Jan 19, 2018.

  1. Rekk

    Rekk Emperor

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    Vassal liberation independence declaration conditions are currently as follows:

    Vassal for X turns
    AND one of:
    1. number of cities 75% or greater than when vassalage started.
    2. population is 300% or greater than when vassalage started.
    3. number of cities is 60% or greater than the number Master's cities.

    When are options 2 or 3 ever going to be the case before 1 is the case? In fact, I can see 1 always happening before X turns unless the Master buys the Vassal's cities or the Master is in a losing war with a 3rd civ.

    Civ5Screen0001.png
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
  2. ElliotS

    ElliotS Warmonger

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    3 can be the case if master is losing a war, and makes sense. 2 doesn't, I agree.
     
  3. Gidoza

    Gidoza Emperor

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    3. Could happen the way I play, because I like to Vassalize opponents when I have as few cities as possible...but it doesn't work without Autocracy because you can't keep them around. There's something amusing about having a Vassal that's bigger than you are (and then beating them up a second time).
     
    vyyt likes this.
  4. Rekk

    Rekk Emperor

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    Will 3 happen before 1, in this case? The vassal needs to lose a quarter of its cities after vassalization before 1 becomes unobtainable.
     
  5. Enginseer

    Enginseer Salientia of the Community Patch Supporter

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    As far as I know these are the conditions for liberating a vassalage, not declaring independence so...

    1 is for wide (always happens if there is lands to settle)
    2 is for tall (this only happens when you have vassalized an empire that is landlocked and have no means to expand beyond their means, so their population must suffice for you to liberate them)
    3 is for a weakening master (you are really bad at fighting and intentionally must liberate in rare cases to create a stronger buffer state.
     
  6. Rekk

    Rekk Emperor

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    I forgot there were different words for each action. The master can choose to liberate its vassal at any time after 10 turns of vassalage. The vassal can only declare independence if it fulfills the the above conditions.

    1. isn't for wide play. The vassal needs to do nothing but keep 3/4 of its cities after it becomes a vassal. This condition is only unfulfilled it it's in a losing war with its master's enemies and its master isn't protecting it. In my mind, having fewer cities than when it started due to its master's war would be the exact situation when a vassal would try to abandon its master and try to make its own peace deal.
    2. sure, this is for tall.
    3. this would be for the vassal that can grow either through war, peaceful expansion, or has a master that is losing a war and its cities.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
  7. Rekk

    Rekk Emperor

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    Note that these conditions are also separate from a civ voluntarily becoming a vassal. Boudicca needed only to be my vassal for 15 turns (the same length as I need to wait before liberating her) before declaring independence:

    17-12-1 Boudicca Vassal.png

    And perhaps I'm misunderstanding option #1 entirely.Nebuchadnezzar clearly has more than the required 75% cities needed to declare independence, but he's still not allowed to:
    17-12-1 Nebu No.png
    17-12-1 Nebu Yes.png
     
  8. Moi Magnus

    Moi Magnus Emperor

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    Can someone confirm that there is a typo and that the ingame mechanics is "number of cities 75% or LESSER than when vassalage started".
    (In the last screenshot, this condition is not considered as completed whereas 200>75)
     

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