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Vassal nearly wins a Cultural Victory

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Big Roy, Mar 18, 2008.

  1. Big Roy

    Big Roy Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2006
    Messages:
    28
    I'm hoping that I'm not raising an issue that has been disucssed to death on this site......

    In my latest game I accepted a nearby neighbour as a vassal around 1600AD after knocking one other neibour into submission and was consequently sitting pretty high on the power chart. In reflection I should not have done this, however the deed was done and I had to live with it.

    At about the mid 1800's I start to check the victory chart to see what was going on and realised that my vassal had three cities rapidly climbing the cultural chart. I had no chance of getting a win this way, and he was going to win about 20 turns ahead of my spaceship launching.

    So......I looked at ways I could throw him off. I asked for all of his resources - he gave them to me. He was friendly, so if I asked for money or to change civics etc - he just said no. I could not get out of this situation.....

    Eventually I had to take the frustrating route of creating a stack of spys - putting all my money into esp and then just kept his city in revolt for 30 turns. I just wanted to blow him out of the water but couldn't.

    The game was capped of with Issabela winning the space race even though she launched 2 turns after me and according to the the turn before had 0 out of 5 casing loaded. Consequently, I don't know whether or not the Vassal could have won, but it seems as though it was very much possible.

    I have to say, while I love this game, there is stuff into that make you just want to through your can of coke straight throught the monitor!

    SORRY WRONG SPOT - ACCIDENT WILL POST IN CORRECT PLACE!
     
  2. Peter Harris

    Peter Harris Warlord

    Joined:
    May 11, 2003
    Messages:
    101
    Location:
    Australia
    :lol::lol::lol:

    I can relate to that. I abandoned one game. It was as good as lost. My vassal was going to beat me in a space race. Maybe I shouldn't have helped it with all those techs earlier on. :lol:

    I didn't have a can of coke so my monitor was quite safe. :goodjob:
     
  3. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    25,708
    IMO, vassals that clear victory conditions should either 1) not be considered eligible for victory until they break free or 2) give victory to the master.

    After all, if you can hold a civ powerful enough to clear a victory condition, you're probably more powerful. It's stupid that you can lose on culture to somebody you beat.

    That said, I've never allowed it to happen, usually badly crippling the more peaceful AI's I fight. Vassals like monty, shaka, or izzy shouldn't be winning a space race or culture victory on you either way...

    Be careful who you take, even though you shouldn't have to be.
     
  4. thecrazyalaskan

    thecrazyalaskan Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2008
    Messages:
    15
    Okay, so If I'm reading this right, this vassal was peacefully acquired, ie not forced into submission. Shouldn't you have been able to just break the agreement after 10 turns and then proceeded to pound his cities into the dust?
     
  5. Peter Harris

    Peter Harris Warlord

    Joined:
    May 11, 2003
    Messages:
    101
    Location:
    Australia
    The master can never break the agreement.

    A voluntary vassal can break freee any time. Capitulated vassals must meet have 50% of masters territory and 50% of masters military power before it has the option of breaking free.
     
  6. Peter Harris

    Peter Harris Warlord

    Joined:
    May 11, 2003
    Messages:
    101
    Location:
    Australia
    I think it adds spice to the game if there is the chance for the vassal to take you out via space race.(I turn off culture victory anyway so I have no comment about culture victories by vassals).

    For example, I find Lizzie makes anotherwise ideal voluntary vassal BUT often keeps me on my toes, if not nervous, about the space race. I have to think about how to manage this vassal to get the most out of her without losing the space race or having her break off. ( I find the other civs are usually easier to manage).
     
  7. ainwood

    ainwood Consultant. Administrator

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    30,078
    Moderator Action: Moved to general discussions.
     
  8. joncnunn

    joncnunn Senior Java Wizard Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2008
    Messages:
    8,621
    Location:
    Missouri
    That is why I don't normally volunteer to give vasals gifts. I'll often give them one or two if they ask. I will though often sugest they research a military tech since I want them to be able to handle their own local defense.
     

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