Vassal Question

Bungholio

Warlord
Joined
Jan 23, 2006
Messages
125
If you conquer a civ do you also conquer its vassals?
 
I think this is a scenario to abuse vassals: assume I am on a continent with me in the west, a civ in the middle, and a civ in the east. I conquer the civ in the middle to the point where they become a vassal state to me. I can now declare war on the state in the east, allowing me to move through the vassal state to attack the civ in the east, but the vassal state become a buffer zone that the civ in the east has to mow through.

Anything in the game to mitigate this? Not that it is a cheat or an exploit, just the abuse of the poor vassal state.
 
Veritass said:
I think this is a scenario to abuse vassals: assume I am on a continent with me in the west, a civ in the middle, and a civ in the east. I conquer the civ in the middle to the point where they become a vassal state to me. I can now declare war on the state in the east, allowing me to move through the vassal state to attack the civ in the east, but the vassal state become a buffer zone that the civ in the east has to mow through.

Anything in the game to mitigate this? Not that it is a cheat or an exploit, just the abuse of the poor vassal state.

Umm... how is this abusing vassals? Thats the point of vassals, you are supposed to protect them in exchange for being their master... It's not abusing the vassals anymore than going to war with a less powerful civilization... So no, there really isn't anything in the game to mitigate this, but if you don't protect your vassal well enough they can get out of being your vassal...

Last night I was at war with Qin Shi Huang when he became a vassal of Shaka, so then I was at war with Shaka as well but Shaka didn't protect Qin (or himself for that matter... I thought he was aggressive, why the hell didn't he build any military?!), but anyway after a while Qin renounced his vassalage to Shaka and offered me capitulation, which I accepted and so then he joined me in the war against Shaka...
 
If you declare war on a civ you also declare war on her vassal states, therefore you will not simply conquer them if you conquer the master state. I played last night as the Persians and made three civs capatuilate to me. You can then ask them for anything. You can trade for any resource, even if they only have one, and they will vote for you for the diplomatic victory. You can also see what they are researching and how far away they are in researching it.
 
Veritass said:
I think this is a scenario to abuse vassals: assume I am on a continent with me in the west, a civ in the middle, and a civ in the east. I conquer the civ in the middle to the point where they become a vassal state to me. I can now declare war on the state in the east, allowing me to move through the vassal state to attack the civ in the east, but the vassal state become a buffer zone that the civ in the east has to mow through.

Anything in the game to mitigate this? Not that it is a cheat or an exploit, just the abuse of the poor vassal state.

Russia. East Germany.

(and any other european communist power actually)
 
asabahi said:
If you declare war on a civ you also declare war on her vassal states, therefore you will not simply conquer them if you conquer the master state. I played last night as the Persians and made three civs capatuilate to me. You can then ask them for anything. You can trade for any resource, even if they only have one, and they will vote for you for the diplomatic victory. You can also see what they are researching and how far away they are in researching it.
There is some new info here IIANM. When you say "You can then ask them for anything" what do you mean? No options for techs or stop trading etc. are redded out? They will allways give in to your demands? No penalty for making demands?

It is good to know they will allways vote for you at the UN, someone said they would not and that would make them a lot less usefull.

Checking out their reaserch is good too.
 
I don't think that's an abuse of a vassal state. That's probably an intended benefit. You ARE paying the maintainance costs.

The vassal gets to be free if they are above a certain % size of the master civ. I suspect that if you tried to conquer a master civ who has a vassal, you would shrink the master and thus make the vassal free.
 
The only thing that I saw that was redded out was a tech I did not have, I think it was fascism. I was already way ahead and I did not care at the time. But for example if they had only one of a resource you can trade a resource that you have more than one of for that resource. You can easily demand them to change to your religion, or civic type, but they will switch back when the deal expires and revert to their own religion or civic of choice. I will say this, the capatualate early in war if you are much more powerfull than them, but my recomendations is to whittle them down a bit, take a few cities and then make them your vasal. unless you are worried about cultural borders and etc. But it is an easy way to win a diplomatic victory. Alexander was my vasal, furious at me, but still voted for me.
 
You can only abuse a vassal so much. They can deny a command(automatic war). They can also end any vassal agreement(I think it is reviewed every 10 turns). Even if you beat them into capitulation(ending the vassals ability to break away) you still have to be careful. If they loss 50% of the land they had when they signed the capitulation they can break off.
 
Thehistoryman said:
If they loss 50% of the land they had when they signed the capitulation they can break off.
Not just break off.. if your enemy is beating them up that bad it is also very likely that they will capitulate to your enemy right after breaking free :p
 
Yeah, I hadnt thought of that. Poor them. They may sue for peace though, and get back in the game(tentativley). Though, and i know this to be true only in the Khan scenario, a vassal can still be fairly culturaly powerful. The Song Chinese capitulated to me. They had only one city left and went on a building spree. After about 6 or 7 turns they had like 171 times the starting land area at the time of the treaty. I actually had a song rebellion in the town closest to there remaining city. This was not because I was weak either. I have quite a lot of cities and have almost every city i have captured.(four seperate nations, and the majority of the song cities.)
 
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