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Vassal states

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Scottm, Nov 13, 2014.

  1. civbone

    civbone Chieftain

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    It's really not any different than your opponent bribing a powerful ally against you, and that's fine, I guess?. The vassal state offer is simply a good offer to an AI.

    It's also realistic, I would argue. There may be plenty of reasons why a powerful civilization doesn't want another one getting more powerful, and so choose to support weak victims of other civs.
     
  2. Seraiel

    Seraiel If you want anything from I please ask in German

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    No. Reject the peace-vassalage first, then bribe AI to peace, and then accept the vassalage :)

    Peace-vassaling a lot of opponents is one of the very fast ways to win a game via Domination or conquest :) .
     
  3. The7Sins

    The7Sins Hungry Burger

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    Anyone know if it is possible to edit the XML or if there is a mod already made to allow vassal states but to disable colonies?

    If yes to either please show the code that needs to be changed or link to the mod that does this.
     
  4. reddishrecue

    reddishrecue Deity

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    You have to talk to the numbnut AI to see if the AI will accept a vassal state proposal. The AI doesnt always accept the proposal so you have to keep asking the AI until the AI proposes capitulation. What I don't know is how to become the vassal state to a powerful AI.
     
  5. civfanchambers

    civfanchambers Prince

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    Welcome back The7sins, hope you're feeling better.
     
  6. The7Sins

    The7Sins Hungry Burger

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    Thanks. Glad to be back.
    2014 was a "fun" year. Death, suicide attempt, mental hospital stay, jail, and now finally (as of December) back home.
     
  7. Jathug

    Jathug Chieftain

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    I have a vassal (was at war AI capitulated). I now see my vassal has oil and I don't. I was to go to war with my vassal and wipe him out thus getting the oil. Can I do this and if so how, please?
     
  8. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

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    You can demand the oil from him/her.
     
  9. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    Pretty sure it's impossible for human players to be vassals of anyone else, at least in single player. Not sure how this works in multiplayer.

    Jathug, if you have a vassal, you can demand resources from him and there will be an option "time for your tribute! refusal means WAR!" They will have to give the resources or you automatically go to war with them.
     
  10. elmurcis

    elmurcis Emperor

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    In my current game I took 5 best MansaMusa cities and he agree to capitulate with 16 cities left (not so good cities but still huge number)... Does he takes account that I already have 3 vassals (with 4 cities left each)? My power ratio at capitulation moment was 1.2 (bigger for me) and his WWariness was ~200...
    Is there any risk of getting huge vassal (capitulation, ofcourse)? (his land is 37% of mine, pop 41%..). It was big step forward to my 1st no-tech trading deity domination victory, but still curious about this situation..
     
  11. Carrot Iron

    Carrot Iron Chieftain

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    Peace vassalage is great. What's awful is when fighting a large AI on one continent and they create a colony on another before you can wipe them out. Sure, they've further driven themselves into defeat by adding the extra economic burden, but the AI always is less likely to capitulate when they themselves are in control of a colony/vassal. I haven't played a game yet where I could demand capitulation from a foe when they still controlled a fair size vassal (who for whatever reason, decided not to break free).

    Now when I go to peace vassal someone, just check and see if they are at war first. It is usually pretty easy to hasten the situation by declaring war, sure, but if on two fronts, then it is best to to divide your stacks.
     
  12. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    Yes, I'm pretty sure the AI takes your vassals into account. When you have vassals a fraction of their power is added to yours for the purpose of demo/AI calculations.
     
  13. Jathug

    Jathug Chieftain

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    Lexicus - tried what you said - demanded tribute in my current game which was refused by the AI. But I still couldn't go to war as it kept saying you cannot declare war. I am playing Noble perhaps there's different rules for different levels?
     
  14. elitetroops

    elitetroops Deity

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    Did you specifically demand a resource? Demanding gold or techs will not trigger war.
     
  15. reddishrecue

    reddishrecue Deity

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    The creators maybe did this because the plays were played to win. So if you become a vassal, then you wouldnt be able to win since you end up watching another ai that wants to win.
     
  16. Seraiel

    Seraiel If you want anything from I please ask in German

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    Vassals still have the chance to win. Mansa tried to sneak in a cultural victory twice from me, after he peace-vassaled to me. In both times I noticed, because I saw that he wasn't researching any techs for me anymore!

    Spoiler :

    I sent him a bunch of spies that destroyed his Cathedrals as a payback. Unfortunately, that didn't make him re-start on researching :sad:
     
  17. reddishrecue

    reddishrecue Deity

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    Vassals could win but the master is supposed to win.
     
  18. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    Look at your deal history with the AI. Making any kind of per-turn deal with them means you cannot declare war for (I think) 10 turns on Standard speed.

    And as elitetroops notes, the tribute-or-war option is only there if the tribute is in the form of resources (luxury or strategic), it doesn't work if you just demand gold or techs.

    If you demand resources there should be a "Time for your tribute! Refusal means war!" option which if they refuse results in immediate DoW.

    Like I said, this actually happened to me once when I decided to demand all of Mansa's resources (I didn't need them, just like screwing with the AI) and he actually went to war.
     
  19. Civ4_boi

    Civ4_boi Chieftain

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    I'm having some troubles with a vassal.

    I want to take some of his cities. Previously, in the diplomatic screen, the option for him to gift me cities was there. He has developed a bit, and now he can't offer me any of his cities.

    I can't release him, and making excessive demands does not lead to refusal and war(which is what I want).

    Does anyone have any suggestions to achieve what I want?
     
  20. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    Unfortunately, you may be screwed. Simplest would be to use Worldbuilder to change the diplomatic status, if you don't want to do that you could try gifting her units until your relative power ratings make her think she can refuse your demands. I'm not sure how well that would work though and obviously it could backfire if you give too many units.
     

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