Vassals Discussion

[carl corey]

You can always get them to stop trading with someone else. But in the long run they might sell techs to others, so you have to be careful with that. I sometimes bring all my vassals to my level especially on military techs and make them not trade with anyone else especially if I'm going for a Domination victory. It helps if you have several vassals, all moderately powerful, even if all they do is soak up some of your next victim's forces.

By the way, the religious line of sight is no longer available in Beyond the Sword. I don't know what happened in Warlords in this case; I usually got the shrine city for my own use. Oh, and you didn't need a shrine for that; only to own the holy city and adopt the religion.

 

[Withouthatred]

I had a funny experience with vassals today. in 1900, I controlled about 33% of the land in the world and held about 15 cities., and had massed a large army of tanks so I could take my last two opponents. I declared war on Charlemagne and after a fast war and capturing only two cities (his entire civ consisted of about 12 cities of this time) he allowed becoming a vassal to be part of our piece agreement. I then repositioned my units to rush China, after declaring war, and capturing one city in two turns, he agreed to becoming a vassal, he had about 12 cities at the time, and this ended up being enough for a domination victory.

I think vassals are meant more for the purpose of a domino effect of obtaining more vassals if anything.

 

[Thalassicus]

Most the pertinent information can be found in the Civilopedia entry.

- Each vassal you control gives you +1 in all your cities.
- Vassal territory can never be within the X of one of your cities. You will always have control over that territory.
- 50% of Vassal territory counts towards your own for Domination purposes.
- You can tell them what technology to research at any time, allowing you to then trade for it after they research it if you build up decent relations after the war.
- Vassalizing them is often easier and faster if they have lots of little scattered cities around the map on islands or other locations that would be hard to clean up. It ends the war weariness and frees up troops for attacking someone else while still gaining that territory.

I've found that with most leaders, you can demand any and all resources from them without a diplomatic penalty so long as you are Cautious or better with them. You can even demand their only instance of a resource. The most common reason for it being red and unable to trade is you already have the resource, but these become tradeable later in the game if you have a corporation that can use it.

 

[torsoboy]

Most the pertinent information can be found in the Civilopedia entry.

- You can tell them what technology to research at any time, allowing you to then trade for it after they research it if you build up decent relations after the war.

How do you do this exactly? I don't recall seeing this in the trade table options...



Thanks
VVVVV

 

[carl corey]

Go to "Let's talk about something else" (I think) and there's the option about what to research. Also, in time of war, you can ask them to attack a certain city. I think you can do that even with normal allies of war. Don't expect them to do much about it though.

 

[torsoboy]

I was at war with Charlemagne and checked to see if I could vassalize him, and the capitulate option was white. I decided to beat him down further to make sure he wouldn't be a threat later on, but then the option turned red because "we're afraid of your enemies". Guess I pushed them a little too far. Now I'll have to conquer the entire HRE to end the war.

 

[carl corey]

AIs sometimes go in and out of agreeing to capitulate. The thing that has been observed most of the time is that if you prepare to capture a few of his cities (knocked down defenses, ready to capture) they will agree to capitulate; but if you do take the cities sometimes they refuse to capitulate. It's probably about threat vs execution: they'd like to keep their cities through capitulation, but if you already took them they think they're ok with the rest of their cities. That's why I try to go for big targets first and clear the rest of the cities only if the AI doesn't capitulate (or if I really want him dead ).

 

[Seras]

1) Pros, you have an instant war partner with a good army

good army? lol

if they become your vassal, either you've already crushed whatever pitifull army they had or they are so underpowered that they voluntarily seeked your protection.

 

[carl corey]

Not always. Especially not in the later parts of the game. In one game Justinian declared on me while having the highest power rating but vassalized when he got a bit under my power rating. (took capital, second and third best cities) He was still comparable with two of the other AIs, and way in front of the rest. He was also ahead of me technologically. The problem isn't really the army, is how they use it, which, most of the time, is a very inefficient way unfortunately.

 

[tiznoast]

I find the best way to get the most of your vassals is by capturing as many cities as you can, then leaving them with 3 max. Try to attack and vassalize a friend before a bitter enemy, as when you vassalize a friend, they're a much more valuable vassal. if the civ was a bitter enemy before the war, just go ahead and destroy them.

once you've vassalized them, make sure there isn't a bunch of open land or anything in the world that would allow them to eventually break free. definitely keep them penned in. Once you've assured that they can't expand enough to break free, start giving them everything you have. not only does this improve their attitude towards you, but it makes them a much more valuable ally.

I will give them all the techs i have that they dont, and will give them any surplus resources i have that they might need - if i need them later for corporations or for trading for something else i need, i can always cancel it - then watch them blossom in their hemmed-in little corner of the world.

wait a bunch of turns, continuing to give them techs you research, bringing them along.

then, when you finally go to war with someone else, you've got a mini-you that is just as advanced and has the resources, if not the hammers to make as big an army, to make units that actually help you.

i've had much success with this strategy - vassalizing each civ one by one to win a conquest victory - many times.

 

[Rusty Edge]

Will vassals broker or sell the techs you give them? That's a good question. I hope not!

Also what if your vassal had founded a religion and built the special building, do you get the bonus where you can see all the other civs cities with that religion?

1) It's been a problem for me in the past. Now it's not when I use the No Tech Brokering setting, or whatever it's called.


2) In BTS, espionage spending, actions, etc. lets you see what's going on, spreading your religion no longer does.