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Vatican: It's ok to believe in aliens

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Masquerouge, May 14, 2008.

  1. Eran of Arcadia

    Eran of Arcadia Stormin' Mormon Retired Moderator

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    What countries are taking Vatican edicts seriously? I am sure lots of individuals are, but that is different, and trust me, it doesn't benefit you much in the long run to be personally offended at every religious person who acts religiously.
     
  2. Zarn

    Zarn Le Républicain Catholique

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    I got it.

    You hate Roman Catholicism, because it confuses you. It confuses Protestants, too. You guys can go to a meeting on Wednesdays about it. The Free Masons set it up.
     
  3. Great Librarian

    Great Librarian Warlord

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    I'm not talking about the size of a star, but its age (which does have something to do with its size, granted). Stars have a lifespan. The bigger the star, the shorter its lifespan and the more stars it can produce when its life ends. If there is sentient life out there presently then it can't be orbiting a star that's much older than our Sun, because, with the distances involved, such stars aren't necessarily around anymore even though we can see them. The star around which they inhabit could very well be a big one, our Sun is rather small as stars come, but it shouldn't be much older. That is, for a star of average size, it shouldn't be more than 3 billion years older than the Sun or else the star would be entering the last part of its lifestyle by now and depending on its makeup and size could either supernova or do what our sun will do in about 5 billion years and grow to envelope the inner planets, burn them to molten rocks and shrink to a white dwarf after sloughing the lighter outer layers into space.

    So, with all that considered, that means that almost any star we can see within 3 billion light years distant that has a viable planet (or planets or moon(s)) could have sentient life or any life at all. Any further than that and the age of the stars relative to us (how long it takes us to see the light from the stars) negates the possibility of there being any life at all.
     
  4. Great Librarian

    Great Librarian Warlord

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    It really doesn't confuse me and I don't hate it. Where did you get either of those notions?
     
  5. Eran of Arcadia

    Eran of Arcadia Stormin' Mormon Retired Moderator

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    We probably (given what I know about the evolution of life on this planet) could have seen intelligent life after just 2 or 3 billion years had things gone not terribly different, though. There was not a lot of increase in complexity for over 2 billion years.

    (And of course, they might have gone to different stars before then.)
     
  6. Great Librarian

    Great Librarian Warlord

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    I'm hardly at all. For instance, countries that prohibit abortions because the Vatican says abortions are wrong. Granted, it really is the people of those countries, being a majority of Catholics, but the people of a country are the country when it comes to decisions arrived at democratically like banning all abortions (even medically necessary abortions like those that would save the mother). That's just one example of taking the Vatican seriously and I by no means meant to make it seem as though many countries are, but those that do really do irritate me or, perhaps more accurately, incite my indignation. There's so much else that's just so silly about the Vatican it really is hard to choose the few that really earn my ire (not in the sense of anger).
     
  7. Zarn

    Zarn Le Républicain Catholique

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    I got it from you complete lack of knowledge. The Masons usually hold the meeting at 7pm Greenwich time.
     
  8. Eran of Arcadia

    Eran of Arcadia Stormin' Mormon Retired Moderator

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    @GL (and I am letting myself get off topic, which I hate): It may surprise you that some people are opposed to abortion for reasons other than the Vatican telling them so. Even Catholics.
     
  9. Great Librarian

    Great Librarian Warlord

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    And if the events that occurred on Earth hadn't we'd expect things to have gone terribly differently. There's really no reason to assume that similar events don't take place on other planets though. Asteroid and meteor collisions are terribly common.

    Let's entertain the idea that might have gone to different stars. I don't want to paint the picture that the stars within 3 billion lights years from us are all relatively the same age. They're not. Some are far far older, some very very young and everything in between. The same is true of stars without that 3 billion light year distance. When we're talking about the possibility of sentient life, we know how long it took on Earth to emerge (and it is basically inevitable for it too emerge at some point during evolution) and even without the set backs it'd still have been a relatively long time and it'd likely be dead by the time we saw the light from its star or even its new star. Which, I suppose is only interesting since that doesn't really detract from the fact that it did exist if we were ever to find out, which is quite impossible. Actually, having speculated on this, I'm lead to wonder why the Vatican cares about the possibility of alien life as unless it's in our solar system we will likely never know about it. I guess it's not a bad thing to be preemptive about these things rather than have to scramble over a crisis of faith like they have in the past.
     
  10. Great Librarian

    Great Librarian Warlord

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    It doesn't at all.

    Ha. So you think I hate something even though I never indicated I did and you get that notion from my apparent lack of knowledge. So, lack of knowledge=hate. You also derive that I'm confused by the same logic. Why would I hate something I lack knowledge of? How can I be confused about something I lack knowledge of? Wouldn't that be ignorance? Thanks for recommending the Masons to me, but they're not my cup of tea either.
     
  11. aelf

    aelf Ashen One

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    Essentially, I'm saying that Great Librarian really should be considered a laughing stock. He just now decides that the Vatican stinks, but on the other hand doesn't admit that he is criticising religion? Most recently, religion is a drug (if religion is a drug what isn't? I have a mental prerogative to believe in concepts too. I wish I could quit those drugs). I just find Great Librarian silly and rather arbitrary in his statements. Over the long run, I find Great Librarian to be hypocritical and backward and it generally irritates me that anyone can take statements from him seriously or take him seriously at all.

    And no, I didn't denounce you in this thread, I called out you on your claims of being credible. An atheist can do that without being self-righteous. Why should I not judge you?
     
  12. Sidhe

    Sidhe Deity

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    I spent a great deal of time talking to Christians about religion. And one thing you can be certain of is that you will never convince them of anything, unless it's something utterly absurd to begin with. Same with atheists, which I also get to criticise by virtue of not being one. If you want a mature discussion about religion ask a theologian is the only place you'll get it here. Otherwise either the atheists or the theists will ruin any debate with their petty squabbling about irrelevancies. I just decided to go elsewhere if I want to talk about religion, or do it on AAT, otherwise there's little point in making threads about it, as it will probably end up in people ignoring the subject and being petty. Seems that the lunatics have taken over the asylum on CFC.
     
  13. aelf

    aelf Ashen One

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  14. Ziggy Stardust

    Ziggy Stardust New Englander

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    This might be true in this here high speed chimp arena, but I have had many civilized discusions with christians in real life and on other forums. The trick is not setting out to convince anyone of anything, but merely discuss points of view. And when you simply try to get behind the motivation why anyone has their pov, it become quite easy to understand them.

    Atheists and Christians have more things in common than differences.
     
  15. holy king

    holy king Deity

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    i hope so. :lol:
    but having to sh*t, fearing death and liking sugar isnt really related to the question if there is a god. you could easily dismiss all those facts from a religious discussion. :p
     
  16. Sidhe

    Sidhe Deity

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    Same here, which is what I mean by other forums. This place is a zoo, and some people are chimps. :)

    And the last thing I want or can do is convince anyone their religion is false or that atheism can be just as bad as theism, that's a personal decision, when I'm discussing religion it's my pov not meant to be some sort of social movement that requires followers.
     
  17. Eran of Arcadia

    Eran of Arcadia Stormin' Mormon Retired Moderator

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  18. aelf

    aelf Ashen One

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    I see maybe one Christian here, and I'm not one of them. And maybe I just need to make a reflective post to suddenly not be one of those chimps you are alluding to?

    I don't tend to shrink from debate, 'civilized' or not (I suppose using words on the internet and not cussing can be uncivilized?). Sometimes people are just being jackasses, whatever their PoV, and unlike some 'civilized wise men' :p, I actually bother to tell them that they are wrong, in the manner that they deserve. I know I won't change their mind, but hey, I get points for trying, rather than just sit there and be high and mighty and all 'civilized' :king: And, hey, this is OT. It's part of the 'real' world, ya know?

    Anyway, election debates probably don't qualify as one of those 'civilized' if-I-may and in-my-humble-opinion discussions. Makes me wonder whether 'civilized' debates are the only ones that matter...
     
  19. Sidhe

    Sidhe Deity

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    I know I was there. :) I come back and find its just a load of bickering. Shame really.
     
  20. aelf

    aelf Ashen One

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