Wether there is a God or not isn't really important in religious discusions either. I know, sounds like a mind-ef, but there you have it If you make that the center point of a religious discusion, it will descent into: Is! Is not! The fact that the christain believes there is a God and the atheist doesn't is part of the stage. Force of one! Hear hear! I'm with you on that. But ... seperate. Not in a movement kind off ... I mean. Drat! By the way: I wonder what Liens are and why extraterrestials are so oposed to them.