1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Venezuela to adopt forced farm labor for citizens

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by luiz, Aug 1, 2016.

  1. luiz

    luiz Trendy Revolutionary

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2001
    Messages:
    20,544
    Another great innovation of 21st Century Socialism:

    http://money.cnn.com/2016/07/29/news/economy/venezuela-decree-farm-labor/

    So Bolivarianism has turned the country with the world's greatest oil reserves into a failed state where starving people drive 12 hours to Colombia or Brazil just to buy food. And to address this problem, the 21st Century Socialists desire to use a very 20th Century Socialist tool, forced labor.

    I think it's time for the world to talk about Venezuela. It's falling apart; quite literally there's no food. The dictatorial regime is increasingly dependent on the armed forces and militias to brutalize the population into submission and prevent a general uprising. This is a potentially explosive situation in a major South American nation, not that far from the US. If it comes to worse and the country plunges into anarchy or civil war, we could be talking of millions of refugees rushing to Colombia, Brazil and eventually the US. A lot of them are already coming, but it could rise exponentially very fast.

    I think the world, and particularly South America, is in denial. The previous Brazilian and Argentinian governments were of course complicit with the Chavista dictatorship, but now that they're gone it's necessary to join voices with Colombia and strongly press for de-escalation and democratic reforms in Venezuela. We are on the brink of a humanitarian crisis of epic proportions that could destabilize the entire continent and nobody is doing anything.
     
  2. dutchfire

    dutchfire Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2006
    Messages:
    14,106
    Location:
    -
    That usually ends well....
     
  3. Bootstoots

    Bootstoots Deity Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2003
    Messages:
    9,437
    Location:
    Mid-Illinois
    It is quite remarkable that serious hunger is returning to a country where it had been uncommon for a rather long time. That's a really good recipe for a civil war.

    What's the status of the recall referendum effort, and failing that is there any chance of a military coup? I'd imagine after the 2002 attempt, and Chavez's subsequent efforts to make sure that didn't happen again, that the military is probably Chavista-dominated, but how much is it controlled by Chavistas compared to the rest of the Venezuelan state?
     
  4. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2008
    Messages:
    10,411
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    America!
    Sounds familiar.

    I'm sure the world would send food if Venezuela asked for it.
     
  5. Cheetah

    Cheetah Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2002
    Messages:
    8,002
    Location:
    the relative oasis of CFC
    Heard about this. Looks like we're entering the final stages of Venezuela's experiment with "soft state communism".

    I hadn't considered the potential refugee situation before though. Hopefully it won't get that dire.
     
  6. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2007
    Messages:
    24,887
    Location:
    Sovereign State of the Have-Nots
    Just waiting for luiz to rant about how this means Jeremy Corbyn is an idiot, hopefully he'll throw in some slighting reference to Jacobin mag as well.
     
  7. Bootstoots

    Bootstoots Deity Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2003
    Messages:
    9,437
    Location:
    Mid-Illinois
    That's always been kind of the problem with luizism - a failure to recognize how heterogeneous the "left" really is, even if at various points a bunch of leftists supported or even still support Chavez and Maduro. Chavez is not Corbyn, who is not Sanders, who is not Tsipras, and none of these people are Stalinists, Trotskyists, or Maoists. Although Maduro's forced farm labor thing is a rather Maoist thing to do, it's being done because he has mismanaged his nation into starvation rather than because it's a direct part of his ideology.
     
  8. Leonel

    Leonel Breakfast Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2001
    Messages:
    10,348
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Strange how other socialist countries don't do this.
     
  9. luiz

    luiz Trendy Revolutionary

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2001
    Messages:
    20,544
    Hum, I talk about Corbyn in threads about Corbyn. This one is about Venezuela. If you wanna talk about the kind of people who think Bolivarianism is awesome (like Corbyn), feel free to start that discussion.

    Luizism - I have my own thing!
    Anyone who read my posts about Chávez, as far back as 2001, knows that I always said he was more of a typical Latin American caudillo than a socialist revolutionary. I know the left is extremely heterogeneous - as is the right. I just hold leftist leaders accountable for their support of murderers and dictators. Everybody holds right-wing leaders accountable for that, but somehow it is morally acceptable to socialize with Fidel Castro and be a groupie to Hugo Chávez.

    I don't know, from the USSR to China to Cambodja to Cuba to Venezuela, all self-professed socialist countries seem to have a thing for forced labor.
     
  10. plarq

    plarq Crazy forever

    Joined:
    May 16, 2004
    Messages:
    6,158
    Location:
    None of the above
    It's quite debatable that gulags and forced labor camps are a specialty of socialism. Almost everybody does it, and the reason is simple: slavery suppresses wages mostly.
     
  11. Algeroth

    Algeroth 8 and 1/2

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2006
    Messages:
    1,466
    Location:
    Прага
    Don't think that's the reason. Not only because in planned economy, you don't care that much about wages.
     
  12. luiz

    luiz Trendy Revolutionary

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2001
    Messages:
    20,544
    Well right now in South America there's only one country talking about forced labor, and it isn't the poorest. But it is the one where El Presidente wears red jackets. And he's certainly not doing it to suppress wages. He's doing it because he is literally lost at the gigantic hole he and his predecessor dug, and now the people are starving.
     
  13. dutchfire

    dutchfire Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2006
    Messages:
    14,106
    Location:
    -
    So, what do you all think is going to happen:
    1) Maduro exiles to Cuba
    2) Coup by the military/others in the regime
    3) Revolution that overthrows the Bolivarianist government
    4) Something else?
     
  14. Cheetah

    Cheetah Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2002
    Messages:
    8,002
    Location:
    the relative oasis of CFC
    Collapse of the Venezuelan state's monopoly of violence. I.e. a slow deterioration of society until we realise there's an actual civil war there, and it's been going on for a few weeks.

    Already crime is rising fast, and there is food around, but it's being held by criminal gangs whom sell it at exorbitant prices.
     
  15. Bootstoots

    Bootstoots Deity Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2003
    Messages:
    9,437
    Location:
    Mid-Illinois
    I'll step back a little bit: I do know you have a reasonably nuanced understanding of politics across the political spectrum. You've earned your own thing. ;)

    The problem is that you seem to jump with relative ease from "[Leftist A] supports [dictator B]" to "[Leftist A] would support [dictator B]-like policies in his home country," which is usually not the case. Democratic leftists do often support authoritarian leftists, and I agree that's a strike against them, morally at least. It doesn't necessarily make anything else they are advocating invalid, though, nor does it mean that they would pursue similar policies if they were to gain power unless they explicitly say so.
     
  16. FriendlyFire

    FriendlyFire Codex WMDicanious

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Messages:
    19,585
    Location:
    Sydney
    Would only work for a short time given how corrupt Venezuela government is and how wide spread crime is. It seems that for years the subsidised food has resulted in people buying it and reselling it across the border for profit. Sending humanitarian aid would stabalize the country but then what ?

    You could set up food kitchens to feed people day by day but I wouldnt trust the Venezuelan government to distribute food given its record of only feeding its own supporters while denying food to the opposition
     
  17. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2008
    Messages:
    10,411
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    America!
    Perhaps the UN could set up and manage some kind of oil for food program.
    That seems the best way to prevent any starvation.
     
  18. mrt144

    mrt144 Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2007
    Messages:
    11,121
    Location:
    Seattle
    Don't let the secret out.
     
  19. Oerdin

    Oerdin Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2002
    Messages:
    2,912
    Location:
    San Diego, CA, USA
    There output has been falling for years as the government chased off most foreign investors, merged their development into the state owned oil company, tgen used it as a cash cow to bribe people and attack abyone who didn't support the dictator. They took so much money out of that cash cow there was little left over for developing new fields or even maintaining existing fields. Worse, the government fired all the skilled technocrats who actually made the state oil company run and replaced them witg loyalists of tge dictator even though they had no experience or training in the business. This has resulted in massive bloat and horrible mismanagement.

    They killed tge goose which layed tge golden eggs even before the price of oil crashed due to excess world supply and lower demand.
     
  20. Zelig

    Zelig Beep Boop

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2002
    Messages:
    16,522
    Location:
    Canada
    I'm pretty sure we could make food that's nutritionally complete yet unappetizing enough to be essentially worthless to anyone with other options.
     

Share This Page