Discussion in 'Civ4 - The Ancient Mediterranean MOD' started by thamis, Jul 20, 2006.
Download at the TAM Website.
Psst, somebody forgot to update the sticky
Edit: Wow, he's quick!
Hi! Great stuff!
I have already played half through a game as the Phoenicians, had a very early war with the Hitties, and it seemed like AI vs AI wars appeared more often too. (Hitties declared the war on me)
But I have one boring thing to report. The Smithy doesent work anymore, even when I have both copper and thin connected to the city.... I have seen people been complaining about this before, but it has never happend to me before..... :/
Seems like the Great people are ancient now, got a few Great engeneers, and they had the right graphics.
Still the Sid's tips says "founds hinduism" on the Polytheism tech.....
Thanx for releasing the new version guys!
If you want to try more fun stuff, run the game as a custom scenario and enable the "Aggressive AI" option.
Cool! I'll try that for my next game as the romans! I'm glad it's the weekend tomorrow!
In my first game of 1.94, playing as Briton up to 760BC (epic speed, custom scenario, agressive AI). The AI diplomacy changes are amazing! Everyone I've met has been annoyed with me (good), looking at the diplomacy screen everyone is at least annoyed with everyone else with the exception being Rome, must try them next that looks like fun. Congratulations to Seven05, some inspired work there.
Rome & Greece were at war. The Gauls & Germans had just signed a cease-fire, the Germans had also attacked Rome!
Just before I quit I had a look at the W/B to assess the "Eastern Situation" and found the Lydians had all but finished off the Hittites, a strong Egypt, a fairly strong Nubia and Persia, Babylon & Medes doing very well. There were plenty of Barbs but not the overwhelming stacks of 1.93, again congratulations are due.
The only bug I've seen so far is the Smithy, as AndreasS mentioned, is not giving the armour bonus but overall this latest version has taken TAM to an even higher level of Olympian greatness!
Sorry for the semi-off topic, but speaking of smithies, let me basically repeat something someone else said earlier. Try this. Research Copper Working (you want it anyway for spears) and immediately build a smithy and hire an engineer. Then research Masonry (you need to go down that path anyway for taverns and cottages, at least.) Your first great person will have arrived in plenty of time to complete, say, The Sphinx, the turn after you learn Masonry. See how easy that was? I didn't realize it until I tried it!
Yeah, that's been my trick since day one. In fact with a philisophical leader you can get two great engineers and rush the sphynx and great lighthous and have plenty of time to get a third for the riches of Kroissos.
As for the AI it will be more aggressive on smaller maps. I can adjust that so the aggression levels are more equal on any map size but it's a tricky balance. You should still be able to get to pleased status with a few AI civs, maybe even friendly with one or two. They still have some trouble trading anything except technologies amongst themselves with enough frequency to make a difference.
And that's what I call Real Ultimate Power!!!!!!!!!
Greetings! Long time lurker, first time poster
Just wanted to throw in my accolades for a job well done on this mod in general. I played and loved TAM in Civ3 - and the legacy continues into Civ4 in a version I love even more! Way to go Thamis, Shype(sp?), etc.
Congrats on the release of 1.94 - and excellent work on the AI Seven05. I was an early guinna pig for some of the changes and gave a bit of feedback. Great stuff.
Lurker! Now that you've shown your face here I can't tell all of the stories about the horrible ways your empire collapses
Love the AI changes, the more war the better.
Just wanted to throw out that I'm also having the smithy promotion not being applied on v1.94.
Also, in the earlier versions the Archers and Skim never received a smithy promotion. I wasn't sure if it was just designed that way or if it wasn't receiving it due to a bug. This causes me to not really use them later in the game. If it's designed this way, I"m sure it's just due to a balance reason that I'm just missing. I only mention due to the smithy not working on any units now and thought it might be the same bug or whatnot.
All in all I love the little things like the GP being dressed for the era and text fixes. The AI is prob my fav though. Seems like they wage war a bit more w/o me instigating it in some form.
Keep making (updating) this mod and I'll keep downloading the latest versions. Can't wait to see what ya'll do with Warlords.
I made this post in the original TAM thread, hopefully Thamis will find it soon and update all his other download mirrors:
Seven05 and Jet, can you guys make suggestions to prevent your cheap advantage-taking tactic? Jet, I'm pretty sure you made a suggestion in the past about other requirements for that technology but I don't remember it. Can you post it here again?
LastWordz, glad that you've decided to lurk no more and to post here. As a member of the TAM development team I'm happy that this mod "brought you out." I agree that Seven05 did do excellent work on the AI, and that has greatly improved the TAM experience for everyone. Again, I'm glad you enjoy TAM
Statement about new AI behavior.
Mid game, here are the results :
- Kroisos +12 (+2 open borders, +4 trade, +5 war help, +2 ressources, -1 spark). I gave him tribute 3 times, surprising not to see it, i guess it is included in the +4 trade or in the +2 ressources.
- Taharaqa 0 (+2 resources, -1 refuse religion, -1 refuse to help).
- Minos -4 (-1 trade ennemy, -3 declared war)
- Aeetes -5 (-2 refuse to help, -3 refuse to help in wartime)
- Hammurabi -6 (refuse tribute -6). In my opinion there should be a limit to how negative 1 category can be, like tribute, help during wartime.
- Suppi -6 (-2 refuse to stop trade w/ennemy, -2 trade with ennemy, -2 refuse tribute)
- Hiram -8 (-2 tribute, -5 wartime, -1 refuse stop trading). same comment with the quite impressive -5 to refuse help, since he repeats always the same demands.
2 other civ are crushed (egypt, median, never saw the others). i must precise i'm under free religion since my neighbor and ally switched religion i had to keep him as an ally.
What sounds surprising to me is to have so bad relations with traditionnally peaceful civs like babylon and phoenicia just by refusing their repeated askings for tribute and/or help in wartime. In another hand, if you are generous with a civ (here, Kroisos, since he was very very powerful), it opens you the trade with them, and with trade good relationship comes.
But everyone can do it, so it's balanced.
Thanks for that insight. We'll have to balance this out a bit more. We can define how likely a civ is to give tribute, and we'll work on it more.
Well, it's not necessary balanced, because just one Civ can benefit from doing it......
Yeah - I have a horrible habit of running into major deficits - too much of a "builder" style of play while trying to be an empire... bad me!
- Thanks for the welcome Shqype! It really is an excellent mod - one of the few that I've played regularly on both Civ3 & Civ4. And I figured since Seven was now involved I'd chime in - he needs someone to keep his ego in check! (I'll prolly regret that remark when he decides to kick my butt in a LAN game over the weekend.....)
On the engineer rush...
There are TONS of great people created in the course of a game, even at normal speed. Increasing the base value would make it too hard to get the first, perhaps increasing the rate of increase would be a good start but then that would make philisophical somewhat less potent. Maybe a slight increase to both would help reduce the total number you see in a game. LastWordz can attest to the insane number of wonders I can build while playing as Mycanae, very few of them taking more than one turn to complete.
With engineers specifically could we reduce the amount of production they contribute when "rushing" a building. At the current value they can build any wonder in one turn (any that I've tried anyway), so building wonders is all about getting great engineers and has nothing to do with production or access to bonuse that increase the speed of building wonders.
Why not have great engineers build a special building (like the scientist's academy) rather than complete another? It would go well with the scheme of things and if they could only build one per city it would help control the power of them without making them worthless. An example of their building could be a workshop that gives a production bonus of 10% for having access to each of the following resources: stone, marble, copper, tin, iron So, potentially you could receive a 50% bonus to production in that city.
Just some random thoughts. If you're only concerned with defeating the wonder rush you need to limit the number of great engineers or their effectiveness when rushing construction.
A lot of the current values, especially for "memory" effects are inappropriate for the various leaders. I'm working on a lot of those now and this is exactly the type of feedback I need, many thanks
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