Version 2.3 feedback

zappara · Oct 7, 2008

Version 2.3 Feedback and bug reports

Because version 2.x bug report thread is getting awfully long and it's getting hard to track down what issues there are left to be checked/fixed, I'm starting new thread for v2.3. So please report bugs in this thread that you've seen when playing RoM v2.3.

About feedback:

For version 2.3 I added about 30 new events and I would appreciate some feedback about them. Some events are set to be occur multiple times, for example Mercenaries which can occur on each era multiple times (but might noth happen to the same civ) or volcanos, storms, ship sinking, plague etc. so any feedback about them that helps me balance those events more is appreciated. Are the gold amounts that are set to the new events too small or too huge? Does it seem that some events don't occur as often as they should? There might be still left some original BTS events that need adjustments to RoM settings - since some of the events don't occur in every game, it's lengthy process to notice events that do not currently have good settings for RoM games.

Some other feedback things:

v2.3 introduced Corporation specific buildings - good/bad idea? How to improve?
RoM Concepts pedia - does it need more info about anything in this mod?
Units/Buildings/Wonders that seem to be underpowered or overpowered?
Ideas how to improve the mod?

Full list of v2.3 changes:

Spoiler :

About bug reporting:

If you find bug in the mod try to describe it in detail when you post about it. This helps me to locate it more accurately and faster.
About missing UI problem: Please post what Windows type and language version you are using. Also tell which one you are using, Beyond the Sword or complete Edition.
CTDs ie. Crashs To Desktop, try to provide as much information as possible what happened just before it occurred. Even better if you can upload save game file so I can take a look at it. If you are experiencing CTDs in late game, try reducing graphic settings, BtS is known to have crashes when saved games get big and when there's lots of stuff in late game - most common reason for CTD is that Civ 4 can't find enough free memory.
Some Civ4 Map scripts can not make maps for Giant or Gigantic map sizes.

BtS log files

To speed up finding possible causes for bugs, you can enable logging in BtS and attach zipped log files in this thread when you post about your findings.

To enable logging go to BtS folder and open Civ4Config. Check following options to these settings:

; Enable the logging system
LoggingEnabled = 1

; Overwrite old network and message logs
OverwriteLogs = 1

; Enable rand event logging
RandLog = 1

; Enable message logging
MessageLog = 1

Now when you start game, it logs everything to log files. When you exit the game, go to BtS folder, there should be Civ4logs, go there. Zip the log files in that folder and attach the zip file in your post so I can take a look at those files.

Known issues list:

CTD issue reported when clicking Start Game (reason unknown), possible reason that player has not updated BtS to version 3.17
Out of Synch error in multiplayer mode, happens when build Colonists or Pioneers, crashes game.
Secret Army Base can be built too early with Great General (FIXED for v2.31)
If game is started on Industrial or later eras, the game crashes after about 20 turns, possible cause is related to Barbarians
Division by zero errors that cause crash - caused most likely by Better BTS AI mod component, next RoM version will have newer version of this component and hopefully they have fixed those errors in Better BTS AI v0.36 or newer
Missing unit action buttons - caused by unit animation file problems, please report what unit type and what nationality you had when this occurred so I can check those unit graphics.
MAFs in late game - this is caused by game engine and computer's memory amount. It's recommended to have 512MB graphics card and 3GB RAM for huge or larger map sizes. If you are experiencing Memory Allocation Faults, please try smaller map sizes (with fewer Civs) and try reducing your graphic settings.
Arcology can become really huge size if the city size goes over 40 and has certain combination of buildings visible. This is difficult issue to fix since cities do not show all buildings if there's not enough plots to display them so it's possible to have the combination in city but due to visibility functions, the bug doesn't occur always. Only solution (that I can think of) would be to disable all building graphics from late era buildings and to set the maximum size for a city.

Planned features for v2.4

Civics system revamped
Spy promotions
Possibly more events (v2.3 got only about 1/3 of the events I had planned to add since the process to add them was slower than I had anticipated)
Add text to remaining strategy, pedia and quotes that are still empty
Add last button graphics to objects that don't have own button graphics yet
Some units/building/wonder additions/changes
Bug fixes
Small terrain changes, particularly Jungle terrain - I'm not entirely satisfied how jungle is represented in Civ 4 and I think it should generate more food than it currently does (there's plenty of wildlife in jungles) and why does it add unhealtiness to cities? There has been great civilizations on jungle locations (Khmer, Maya for example) throughout the history, so how should this terrain type be modified to be more useful?

Here's the current list of changes in the next patch:

Spoiler :

alireza1354 · Oct 7, 2008

Will version 2.4 have the CTDs in the late era fixed??

Oooo I just read so, that will probably be the case. Wow.

Thnx Zappara. I wish I could help u..

I cant. I am totally a-technical.

Afforess · Oct 7, 2008

So 2.4 won't have any CTD's? Can you just release what you have now as 2.35?

CivFanCCS · Oct 7, 2008

Zappara

I would leave the jungles as they are. For one, to get any food bonus you need to chop and grow crops in real life. Uncut jungle is hard to work and produces mainly commodity foods like banana. Secondly they are havens for parasites and disease which represent the negative health, hence most jungle living peoples of the world have not progressed as much as the their non-jungle living friends and foes.

One BIG request would be to make a tech that obsoletes vassalage sometime around the mid-industrial era, or to make it so that if have vassals, you must maintain the vassalage civic option. Except for Mongolia and Taiwan vassalage is obsolete.

Ogaburan · Oct 7, 2008

You can build multiple national courier system, with every great general. Not sure if its even a bug.

Plus i understand its possible to have some numbers for the revmod. For the hell of it i cant understand that bar. It says improving, its grey to the top, i bribe the city, it becomes half green and the city still revolts. And the next turn 1/4 of it is still green...

Even some more impute in the pedia will be nice, since i documented myself from the original mod which is for the (crappy) vanilla Bts and not for the (amazingly amazing) Rom. And im not so sure what does what exactly... :cry:

This is not a bug, rather a personal grudge i have against that bar... :lol:

Love the mod! :goodjob:

Long live Zappara! :king:

Ogaburan · Oct 7, 2008

CivFanCCS said:
Zappara

I would leave the jungles as they are. For one, to get any food bonus you need to chop and grow crops in real life. Uncut jungle is hard to work and produces mainly commodity foods like banana. Secondly they are havens for parasites and disease which represent the negative health, hence most jungle living peoples of the world have not progressed as much as the their non-jungle living friends and foes.

One BIG request would be to make a tech that obsoletes vassalage sometime around the mid-industrial era, or to make it so that if have vassals, you must maintain the vassalage civic option. Except for Mongolia and Taiwan vassalage is obsolete.

Agree on the jungle, but totally disagree on the vassal issues. Maybe today its not so obvious, but the vassal states still exists. You gave the 2 most obvious examples...

Instead of giving some controversial modern example i will give one from modern times. The U.S.S.R which had many vassal states... Romania, Hungary, Ukraine, Latvia, Lita, the Muslim belt (the STAN nations), Belarus ect...

Same with nazy germany and France (Vichy poppet state) and Romania (general Antonescu) Ect...

So vassalage still exists n the modern era.

Afforess · Oct 7, 2008

I'm not sure vassal is the right word. Maybe with the communism tech we could make puppet states? (Like the Conquerer's Delight Mod)

Ogaburan · Oct 7, 2008

Afforess said:
I'm not sure vassal is the right word. Maybe with the communism tech we could make puppet states? (Like the Conquerer's Delight Mod)

Name it as you want, a country with no foreign policy is a vassal in my books.

zappara · Oct 8, 2008

Afforess said:
So 2.4 won't have any CTD's? Can you just release what you have now as 2.35?

I'll probably release 2.31 that fixes few minor things from v2.3. Hopefully I can get back home this week and start modding on weekend and if all goes well, I'll have that patch ready next week.

CivFanCCS said:
Zappara

I would leave the jungles as they are. For one, to get any food bonus you need to chop and grow crops in real life. Uncut jungle is hard to work and produces mainly commodity foods like banana. Secondly they are havens for parasites and disease which represent the negative health, hence most jungle living peoples of the world have not progressed as much as the their non-jungle living friends and foes.

I just noticed Jungle mod and it pretty much makes the same changes to jungles as I had in my mind. Check it out and then say if those changes aren't reasonable.

While it's true that jungles are havens for parasites and disease (I think actually marsh terrain has more insects), jungles have also great amount of plants that have healing properties - proven by modern day medicine industry. I wouldn't say native people who live in jungle didn't progress because of parasites/diseases but because of diversity of jungle that provided them everything they needed, thus they didn't have any special need to convert jungles to farmlands. They probably had also resistance to most diseases that were present in the jungles (but not against those diseases that Europeans brought to America and 2/3 of native populations died to european diseases during colonization times).

Originally I wanted to add Marsh terrain to the game but it didn't happen because I didn't know how to change the mapgenerator python files but now that Johny Smith released Colonization Base Land Terrain including Marsh for BtS I could grab the required mapgenerator changes from it

Ogaburan said:
So vassalage still exists n the modern era.

One could say that Iraq is now vassal/puppet state of USA...

Agent327 · Oct 8, 2008

zappara said:
While it's true that jungles are havens for parasites and disease (I think actually marsh terrain has more insects), jungles have also great amount of plants that have healing properties - proven by modern day medicine industry. I wouldn't say native people who live in jungle didn't progress because of parasites/diseases but because of diversity of jungle that provided them everything they needed, thus they didn't have any special need to convert jungles to farmlands. They probably had also resistance to most diseases that were present in the jungles (but not against those diseases that Europeans brought to America and 2/3 of native populations died to european diseases during colonization times).

Jungles are the largest biotopes, or have the greatest biodiversity on the planet. Also jungle inhabitants are hunter/collectors mostly and seminomadic, both of which kind of excludes farming, which is sedentary. While certain jungle features, notably along rvers, might be considered swampy, they're an integral part of the jungle.

Otherwise I applaud the inclusion of marshes, ofcourse. Also, Jungle Mod looks very promising plus an interesting new approach. (Huge discussion going on over there, too.) :thumbsup:

Loke.be · Oct 8, 2008

First I'd like to say that 2.3 is just perfect for me. It's an awesome piece of work!
Thanks for that!

+1 for adding marshes.
The jungle mod looks interesting but maybe a bit too much I think. But well as Jeelen said there's a lot of thinking/discussion to be done on this matter.

Few ideas:
- I'd like to be able to use the peak in the maps too.. I think in colonization it was nice to use peaks. Maybe they could have special resources linked to them too.. dunno just an idea but it may be nice. Maybe not all peaks could be accessible but some of them. Again we're talking about a new land type I guess.
- more events related to terrains?
- more civilizations available without the need of another patch would be a nice touch. special units/building are needed of course too. I can help with models if you need.
- be able to build camps which can develop into cities? could be interesting to "capture" resources early in the game when you don't want to spend the time/money to build a real city.

Ogaburan · Oct 8, 2008

zappara said:
While it's true that jungles are havens for parasites and disease (I think actually marsh terrain has more insects), jungles have also great amount of plants that have healing properties - proven by modern day medicine industry. I wouldn't say native people who live in jungle didn't progress because of parasites/diseases but because of diversity of jungle that provided them everything they needed, thus they didn't have any special need to convert jungles to farmlands. They probably had also resistance to most diseases that were present in the jungles (but not against those diseases that Europeans brought to America and 2/3 of native populations died to european diseases during colonization times).

Originally I wanted to add Marsh terrain to the game but it didn't happen because I didn't know how to change the mapgenerator python files but now that Johny Smith released Colonization Base Land Terrain including Marsh for BtS I could grab the required mapgenerator changes from it

Marsh land - Good.

Rain forest - i think adding anything to the current Rom jungle will be a mistake. Im saying that even after a game where i got "stuck" in the jungle. A really good idea is to remove the unhealth from it. Since people always get immune to their surroundings i thin that unhealth from ANY terrain is unrealistic as well. Saying jungles are diseased is such a wrong thing to say...

Afforess · Oct 8, 2008

I'd like to be able to use the peak in the maps too

Couldn't you just make the peaks produce 2 coins? That's realistic, because there is some religious and tourist values in mountains. And maybe there could be a new improvement for them, terracing? (+2 food.)

Ogaburan · Oct 8, 2008

Afforess said:
Couldn't you just make the peaks produce 2 coins? That's realistic, because there is some religious and tourist values in mountains. And maybe there could be a new improvement for them, terracing? (+2 food.)

Or maybe even build a Sky resort in the modern area... to generate more revenue.

BadaBing · Oct 8, 2008

Sorry, I posted this originally in the old "Bug Reports" thread because I hadn't spotted this new thread. It's definitely still a 2.3 problem so here's the link

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7317737&postcount=182

Any ideas why the AI sometimes refuse to trade for Dye?

Thanks

CivFanCCS · Oct 8, 2008

"Rain forest - i think adding anything to the current Rom jungle will be a mistake. Im saying that even after a game where i got "stuck" in the jungle. A really good idea is to remove the unhealth from it. Since people always get immune to their surroundings i thin that unhealth from ANY terrain is unrealistic as well. Saying jungles are diseased is such a wrong thing to say..." - Ogaburan

I would have to disagree, we need at least one somewhat negative tile in the game, if not for the challenge than for diversity and game play. Jungles are really unhealthy and people do not become immune to say, malaria.

I suggest to create a python script that triggers when all civs are placed and if they have 5 or more jungle tiles in their immediate area than give their warriors +1 jungle movement. This would be more realistic, while evening out the disadvantages imposed on a Civ. by starting in a jungle. Should also limit motorized transport unit movements in jungle even if roads exist. You could add a new jungle commando unit that would receive movement/attack bonuses while operating in jungle tiles.

Afforess · Oct 8, 2008

I would have to disagree, we need at least one somewhat negative tile in the game, if not for the challenge than for diversity and game play. Jungles are really unhealthy and people do not become immune to say, malaria.

I completely agree that Civilization needs to have negative tiles. (Other than the desert.) However, maybe a different strategy could be worked out. Perhaps a python script could check to see that if 70% or more of your population had a jungle in the city radius, your civilization became immune to the -1 unhealthy. If it fell below 70%, the -1 unhealthy returns. Units moving through jungles could have a 10% chance of being damaged (not killed) by traversing the jungle.

Badabing,

Does the AI already have dye? they won't use it if they don't have it. Also, if they have dye in their cultural borders, but not in their city radius (so the ******ed worker AI builds a fort on the dye) they won't trade for it. Maybe the AI is trading with someone else (another AI?) for dye.

Ogaburan,

That's a great idea.

Afforess · Oct 8, 2008

Now, I'm just curious, but there is alot of tech's that repeat the audio from old techs, are they just temporary placeholders, with some plan in place for the future, or what? I would much rather hear "Microsoft Sam" read the newer tech's quotes than hear the same quote 15 times.

BadaBing · Oct 9, 2008

Afforess - Dye is showing up in the "Will Trade" section and the AI definitely doesn't have any. Nothing within their borders either. I tried trading Dye with a +23 AI who had stuff to trade and he wouldn't offer anything in return.
Weird?!

White Flag · Oct 9, 2008

Hy Zappara and you all !

1° Point:

How wonderfull job you do puting all those changes together.
On my opinion, it's looks like more " THE MASTER ADDON I WAS DREAMING ON" than a Mod.
So each time i play, i burn a candle for the builders community an specialy for Zappara. :goodjob:

The settings and version are:
- V2.3 and the ExtraCiv Addon Pack.
- All Options are Turned on except Revolution(A little hard for my).
- Difficulty is Settler.
- Size map is the bigger one.
- Snale Speed (3000 turns).

My Question is:

All civs are in war against me since the beggining without any war declaration. :sad:

IS IT normal ?

My second trouble is that i don't write english very well, but you can't do anything for that. :lol:

Version 2.3 feedback

Mod Designer

Emperor

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Warlord

Warlord

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Mod Designer

Observer

Chieftain

Warlord

The White Wizard

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The White Wizard

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Chieftain

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