Version 3.3

[plasmacannon]

I have a friend who is reinstalling everything onto a new hard drive, OS and all.
We have to have the same version for multiplayer to work properly.

I downloaded the RI 3.25 version 6 months ago. So mine is current.
I've read about some nice changes since then.
I see that last update was on March 4th 2014, about 14 months ago.
I read that updates are typically about a year apart.

Are there plans to release an version 3.3 (or whatever it will be called) in the next few months?

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

Maybe, we can never be sure ourselves. Depends on our progress.

 

[plasmacannon]

With the release of Star Wars VII next month, don't forget to update the "Star Wars" Civilopedia entry in the game.
It is no longer just 2 trilogies.
Maybe list it as 7 movies?

 

[plasmacannon]

Wow! It's been about 10 months since I posted this. Anything new on an update possibility?

I didn't see a suggestions thread so I guess I'll add this here too.
Were any thoughts given to balancing or making traits more desirable?

For example, I can't help but notice that it doesn't matter, if one plays Hitler or the most holiest Spiritual Leader, there is no difference to the population. As if they wouldn't care. I'm sure Argentina is more thrilled by the Pope's visit, than if a Hitler-like tyrannical dictator showed up.

Either can adopt the Monasticism Civic to spread their religion at the same rate.
Wouldn't a Spiritual Leader, knowing more about their faith be able to educate people and perhaps produce missionaries faster?
Shouldn't merely having a Spiritual Leader of the country's faith inspire them. Maybe +1 happiness in cities that have the state religion?
I know there is 1 happy from the religion being there already, so yes Hitler would have that happy, but wouldn't the people prefer the Pope of their faith leading them, than Hitler?
So +1 happy in those cities seems reasonable.

Also, I keep wanting to try the Legislator trait, but it seems worthless compared to others.
+1 Prod and -50% Civic cost is nice, but minor, like the Organized Trait was.
Building courthouse faster is nice, until you build the national wonder that places a free one in every city, so you won't need that part of the trait anymore.

The big part of this trait appears to be the Government Official.
This seems like a great idea at first. However, once you realize that 3 of the 4 buildings he can build quickly (Arsenal, Library, Courthouse) are free once you've built their national wonder, he only becomes useful for rushing the Mayor's office into 2 cities at a time. Since, we can only build 2 officials at a time.
Also, Libraries can be build faster by Philosophical leaders too and are usually built earlier, especially by leaders with both traits.

Considering that one has to change out of the Plutocracy Civic to the Civil Service Civic, losing that +10% Gold in all cities, +10% Prod, +20% Gold and +50% Spying in Capitol, that comes with it seems like too much of a loss to bother switching over to it. Not to mention, leaders like Alfonso of Spain have the Excessive (-10% Gold) negative trait, making leaving Plutocracy an even lousier choice.

With the economy being important in every game and the Financial trait has 5 money related buildings (some of the most costly to build) that it will help us build faster on top of it's extra gold per 3, is there something one could add to Legislator to make it worth choosing?
Maybe, producing other government buildings faster, like Parliament, Bureaucracy or Absolute Monarchy?
Something worth taking the Gold hit by not being in Plutocracy?

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

Wow! It's been about 10 months since I posted this. Anything new on an update possibility?

What do you mean? 3.3 has been out for quite a while.

For example, I can't help but notice that it doesn't matter, if one plays Hitler or the most holiest Spiritual Leader, there is no difference to the population. As if they wouldn't care. I'm sure Argentina is more thrilled by the Pope's visit, than if a Hitler-like tyrannical dictator showed up.

Either can adopt the Monasticism Civic to spread their religion at the same rate.
Wouldn't a Spiritual Leader, knowing more about their faith be able to educate people and perhaps produce missionaries faster?
Shouldn't merely having a Spiritual Leader of the country's faith inspire them. Maybe +1 happiness in cities that have the state religion?
I know there is 1 happy from the religion being there already, so yes Hitler would have that happy, but wouldn't the people prefer the Pope of their faith leading them, than Hitler?
So +1 happy in those cities seems reasonable.

Well, the existing bonus to Spiritual is already quite powerful. Basically, you get 10-20 turns more than anyone else in a given game (turns they spend in anarchy). But religion spread is a nice idea, especially since it is no more tied so strongly to economic prosperity.

Also, I keep wanting to try the Legislator trait, but it seems worthless compared to others.
+1 Prod and -50% Civic cost is nice, but minor, like the Organized Trait was.
Building courthouse faster is nice, until you build the national wonder that places a free one in every city, so you won't need that part of the trait anymore.

The big part of this trait appears to be the Government Official.
This seems like a great idea at first. However, once you realize that 3 of the 4 buildings he can build quickly (Arsenal, Library, Courthouse) are free once you've built their national wonder, he only becomes useful for rushing the Mayor's office into 2 cities at a time. Since, we can only build 2 officials at a time.
Also, Libraries can be build faster by Philosophical leaders too and are usually built earlier, especially by leaders with both traits.

Considering that one has to change out of the Plutocracy Civic to the Civil Service Civic, losing that +10% Gold in all cities, +10% Prod, +20% Gold and +50% Spying in Capitol, that comes with it seems like too much of a loss to bother switching over to it. Not to mention, leaders like Alfonso of Spain have the Excessive (-10% Gold) negative trait, making leaving Plutocracy an even lousier choice.

With the economy being important in every game and the Financial trait has 5 money related buildings (some of the most costly to build) that it will help us build faster on top of it's extra gold per 3, is there something one could add to Legislator to make it worth choosing?
Maybe, producing other government buildings faster, like Parliament, Bureaucracy or Absolute Monarchy?
Something worth taking the Gold hit by not being in Plutocracy?

Really, I can't justify your reasoning from any practical aspect. City tile production, civic upkeep and cheaper courthouses deliver when they are needed most - early in game. Discounting a bonus because there's a ministry available later on? Come on, by that time you will have likely won anyway.

Same can be said for officials - planning on starting a colony on a new distant continent? Great that you brought a government official with you, so you aren't taking a big economic hit for 50-100 turns while your 1-size city is in any shape to build a courthouse and mayor for itself. Or of course you could delay colonization for another 200 turns while the requisite ministries become available...

 

[plasmacannon]

What do you mean? 3.3 has been out for quite a while.

Sorry. I didn't see any announcement here on the forum. I see it now in the download section. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=411799

Well, the existing bonus to Spiritual is already quite powerful. Basically, you get 10-20 turns more than anyone else in a given game (turns they spend in anarchy). But religion spread is a nice idea, especially since it is no more tied so strongly to economic prosperity.

Sounds good. I'll check out the download.
I had just noticed that there was no difference to the empire's happiness over their leader being Spiritual over say a Militaristic Dictator while having a state religion. That part seemed odd.

Really, I can't justify your reasoning from any practical aspect. City tile production, civic upkeep and cheaper courthouses deliver when they are needed most - early in game. Discounting a bonus because there's a ministry available later on? Come on, by that time you will have likely won anyway.

Same can be said for officials - planning on starting a colony on a new distant continent? Great that you brought a government official with you, so you aren't taking a big economic hit for 50-100 turns while your 1-size city is in any shape to build a courthouse and mayor for itself. Or of course you could delay colonization for another 200 turns while the requisite ministries become available...

I guess I am more of a builder than a blitzer. I don't usually "have the game won" in the early gunpowder stages. It depends on the empire and leader I play as well as distance to the foes. To me it seemed like the Legislator trait declines in vale rapidly when those Natural Wonders are built that provide a free Courthouse, Library and Arsenal in every City. So, what would be the point of building 1-2 Government Officials just to fast build a Mayor's Office, while losing out on the gold, production and Spying provided by Plutocracy.

 

[Shuikkanen]

I had just noticed that there was no difference to the empire's happiness over their leader being Spiritual over say a Militaristic Dictator while having a state religion. That part seemed odd.

Being Spiritual doesn't automatically make you a good guy. I'm sure there's plenty of monstrously fanatical religious tyrants among the civ leaderheads that have the trait Spiritual.

Also, happiness in civ iv is both happiness and lack of unhappiness at the same time. (Unlike in the first civilization game, where you had happy, content, and unhappy folks.) Military despot could keep dissent to a minimum, ie. quell unhappiness, which is represented in the mechanics the same way as adding happiness.

 

[plasmacannon]

True. An Aztec Spiritual leader doesn't come across as 'good guys' in the modern sense, but were they preferred to leaders of other empires they thought were the 'bad guys'?
I know there is an anti-clerical negative trait, which would seem to epitomize Hitler. Certainly of the Jewish religion. So either he has the incorrect negative trait, or we are missing a happy to many others, because Jewish people would have wanted to live under anyone else's rule than Hitler's.
Hopefully, we can agree on that. Yet they have the same happiness from religion. How can that be?

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

I had just noticed that there was no difference to the empire's happiness over their leader being Spiritual over say a Militaristic Dictator while having a state religion. That part seemed odd.

It doesn't sound odd to me at all. A cynical leader can be very good at exploiting religion for his own popularity, while not being very religious himself - look no further than Mussolini for a good example of that.

On the other hand, a spiritual leader might be detached from actual plights of his own people in favor of higher pursuits. To take from our mod, Akhenaton is a great example of that - he managed to antagonize all of Egyptian society with his spiritual practices (that were, considered separately, truly humanist and ahead of their time).

So being a spiritual leader doesn't automatically make you more beloved by your people.

I guess I am more of a builder than a blitzer. I don't usually "have the game won" in the early gunpowder stages. It depends on the empire and leader I play as well as distance to the foes. To me it seemed like the Legislator trait declines in vale rapidly when those Natural Wonders are built that provide a free Courthouse, Library and Arsenal in every City. So, what would be the point of building 1-2 Government Officials just to fast build a Mayor's Office, while losing out on the gold, production and Spying provided by Plutocracy.

Yep, it may be most valuable early on, but that doesn't make it worthless. Some traits are better early on, some later on. My personal school of thought on that one is that if you make no grave mistakes, it is the first 100-150 turns that determine your further performance, and thus even a minor bonus during that time is more valuable than a major one later on.

True. An Aztec Spiritual leader doesn't come across as 'good guys' in the modern sense, but were they preferred to leaders of other empires they thought were the 'bad guys'?
I know there is an anti-clerical negative trait, which would seem to epitomize Hitler. Certainly of the Jewish religion. So either he has the incorrect negative trait, or we are missing a happy to many others, because Jewish people would have wanted to live under anyone else's rule than Hitler's.
Hopefully, we can agree on that. Yet they have the same happiness from religion. How can that be?

Hitler is not anti-clerical. Being anti-clerical is opposing the clergy of the major religion of your people, not oppressing minorities (in Hitler's case, he'd need to be anti-christian to qualify for that). And antagonizing the clergy usually makes people quite unhappy, unless said clergy is already discredited in the eyes of general population (which usually isn't the case). A good example is Peter the Great, who was regarded as Antichrist by the Orthodox church (and who did a lot to undermine it).

Another interesting example is above-mentioned Akhenaton, who illustrates that a Spiritual leader doesn't necessarily have a good standing with the church officials. He was hated and despised by Egyptian clergy, whom he put out of business by banning the old cults.

 

[plasmacannon]

Good points. Thanks for the clarification.

I like the new leaders. Especially seeing President Polk added to America.
I always thought he played an important role in creating the continental America we see today.