Version preview - 5-17

[Gazebo]

Hey all,

New version coming soon, but I wanted to drop the current patch notes for discussion:

Core
    Added Instant Yield Logging
Bugfixes
    Loads of github fixes and 'stale' fixes - if not listed, but closed recently, likely fixed or stale (i.e. no longer a valid issue)
        Adjust TR completion to be after building completion
        SD nuke blocking has a notification
        Fixed Border Growth Tooltip not account for some policies and effects
        Fixed stale deals not being cancelled by game
        Assorted text fixes based on github requests
        Reverted change to faith follower scaling for tech unlock founder policy element
        Fixed some missing tooltips and promotions on units
        Fixes for city citizen assignment and phantom yield discrepancies
        Fix for RA instant yield integration
        Barb camp yields now funnelled through the instant yield system
    AI
        Adjustments to diplo AI logic for vassalage and war
        Adjustments to deal AI valuation model for resources
        Tactical AI tweaks
        City Citizen AI tweaks
Changes
        Victory
            Vassals holding capitals now count towards domination victory
        Puppets
            Scrapped prior model - now build normally up to prior era of buildings
        Tourism
            Tourism base per GW now 3 (Was 4)
        UI  
            Mutually exclusive buildings can no longer coexist in queue
            Fixed static UI element for Great Musician tour length scaling
        Minors
            Specific global quests (horde and rebellion) no longer expire/obsolete due to war or bullying
        Refunds
            If a city has a building replaced by a 'free' copy from a policy etc., the current cost of the item in the city is refunded as an immediate instant yield in the city
        Scaling Spies
            Policies/Abilities that scale on number of CS now only scale off of those founded in first 10 turns of game
        Happiness
            Empire Happiness is now distributed on from high->low pop cities (instead of order of founding)
                Distribution now ignores local population cap - so it'll just keep passing out happiness until the empire sources are gone
            Local happiness can now exceed local population, just like local unhappiness
            Slightly expanded the ratio for distress (70 -> 100), meaning you'll suffer less relative distress overall
            Distress is no longer the average of food/production in a city - it is now the sum of them
        Espionage
            Science/Gold theft no longer have effect cooldowns (no blocking)
            'Quell' counterspy mission no longer requires unhappy element in city
            Fixed CTD caused by firaxis spy pointer method (bad direct access, bad!)
            Fixed some strange notifications in specific situations
        Pantheons
            Goddess of Hunt - now +1G on Camp (was +1f)
            Aurora - +1c on resources (was +1g)

Discuss!
G

 

[CrazyG]

Refunds If a city has a building replaced by a 'free' copy from a policy etc., the current cost of the item in the city is refunded as an immediate instant yield in the city

What does this apply to? I can only think of wonders.

Core Added Instant Yield Logging

You're beautiful.

Happiness changes look great at a glance, looking forward to playing.

 

[SuperNoobCamper]

What does this apply to? I can only think of wonders.

Ideological tenets providing buildings for free like Workers faculties, Universal healthcare, Academy of science, etc..

 

[Legen]

If a city has a building replaced by a 'free' copy from a policy etc., the current cost of the item in the city is refunded as an immediate instant yield in the city

What does this apply to? I can only think of wonders.

Certain tenets, like Universal Healthcare and Air Superiority. And a few UBs from 34UC and modded civs. I remember some modded unique National Wonders adding a free building as part of the UB. Examples include 34UC Byzantium (unique Circus Maximus giving a free arena and not requiring one) and Japan led by Meiji (unique corporation that gives a free Stock Exchange in one city).

By the way, what is the intended behavior in case of faith buildings? Their cost change with era; if I build Notre Dame in Renaissance with a Cathedral already in the city, do I get a 200 (Medieval cost) or 300 (Renaissance cost) faith refund? The latter seems exploitable, if only applicable to two buildings. And does it consider cost reductions, like Fealty's opener?

 

[tothePAIN]

Is there anything being done about trading with the AI - specifically, the amount of gold that the AI will give for strategics? Right now, trading strategics one by one with the AI is the biggest exploit in the game. @CrazyG was receiving over 100 gold on a recent contrast play through from the AI, which is insane.

 

[Gazebo]

Is there anything being done about trading with the AI - specifically, the amount of gold that the AI will give for strategics? Right now, trading strategics one by one with the AI is the biggest exploit in the game. @CrazyG was receiving over 100 gold on a recent contrast play through from the AI, which is insane.

        Adjustments to deal AI valuation model for resources

 

[Gazebo]

Certain tenets, like Universal Healthcare and Air Superiority. And a few UBs from 34UC and modded civs. I remember some modded unique National Wonders adding a free building as part of the UB. Examples include 34UC Byzantium (unique Circus Maximus giving a free arena and not requiring one) and Japan led by Meiji (unique corporation that gives a free Stock Exchange in one city).

By the way, what is the intended behavior in case of faith buildings? Their cost change with era; if I build Notre Dame in Renaissance with a Cathedral already in the city, do I get a 200 (Medieval cost) or 300 (Renaissance cost) faith refund? The latter seems exploitable, if only applicable to two buildings. And does it consider cost reductions, like Fealty's opener?

This is a production refund, not a faith refund.

G

 

[InkAxis]

Added Instant Yield Logging

Amazing

Vassals holding capitals now count towards domination victory

This is great, I've heard people requesting it a lot. I was told it couldn't be done because it meant it would rely on the C4DF. Personally I'm fine with "relying" on it, it should be better integrated into the game.

If a city has a building replaced by a 'free' copy from a policy etc., the current cost of the item in the city is refunded as an immediate instant yield in the city

I like this, it might be a bit exploitable in that you can build the building right before getting a wonder so that you get a production boost. But it would be hard to time wonder/building/policy like that so not incredibly exploitable. I could see something like 75% refund as a change though.

Empire Happiness is now distributed on from high->low pop cities (instead of order of founding) Distribution now ignores local population cap - so it'll just keep passing out happiness until the empire sources are gone Local happiness can now exceed local population, just like local unhappiness Slightly expanded the ratio for distress (70 -> 100), meaning you'll suffer less relative distress overall Distress is no longer the average of food/production in a city - it is now the sum of them

Big changes, will have to see how it plays out but I like the sound of it. I actually already thought distress was the sum of food and production. So now you should be able to just increase food or just increase production to reduce happiness more effectively?
Edit: nevermind I misunderstood, it took the average before.

 

[azum4roll]

Big changes, will have to see how it plays out but I like the sound of it. I actually already thought distress was the sum of food and production. So now you should be able to just increase food or just increase production to reduce happiness more effectively, as I understand.

I think it just means distress is effectively doubled.

 

[CrazyG]

I think it just means distress is effectively doubled.

Wouldn't the median double too though? So does it do anything?

 

[Stalker0]

My thoughts inline

Hey all,

Core
Added Instant Yield Logging

--Mic Drop, beautiful update G I can't wait to..... oh wait there's more? Oh ok
Refunds
If a city has a building replaced by a 'free' copy from a policy etc., the current cost of the item in the city is refunded as an immediate instant yield in the city

--So effectively if I have a factory built in my capital and take the order policy that gives me 5 free factories, my capital gets instant production equal to that factory? Is so, seems good!

Scaling Spies
Policies/Abilities that scale on number of CS now only scale off of those founded in first 10 turns of game

--So if I understand this correctly, this means that on a Terra Style map, about half of the CS won't be counted for scaling, but then will be usable for votes at the end. Seems very swingy, I know PAD posted the thoughts about changing the CS scaling but this seems a very very strange way of doing it.

Happiness
Slightly expanded the ratio for distress (70 -> 100), meaning you'll suffer less relative distress overall
Distress is no longer the average of food/production in a city - it is now the sum of them

--In theory this means that a food focused civ will actually have a tiny distress edge over a production focused one...just because farm triangles on water give a little bit more than mines do. It makes sense. Personally my guess is that my unhappiness slots will simply be filled with other buckets a little bit more, but we will see if this makes a big change.

I personally wonder if we are attacking the right thing here. I complain about happiness on Immortal a lot, but when I've played Emperor happiness is pretty easy in comparison. So is everyone having an issue with unhappiness or just higher difficulties? If its the latter, we could just the players back the extra +1 happy you get at lower difficulties.... even 1-2 more happy is a big deal in the early game.

Espionage
Science/Gold theft no longer have effect cooldowns (no blocking)
'Quell' counterspy mission no longer requires unhappy element in city
--Sweet!

Pantheons
Goddess of Hunt - now +1G on Camp (was +1f)
--of all the changes we have discussed over time, I don't think anyone thought it was too much food. Weird change, not sure where its coming from. The only criticism I ever see with Hunt is that it overlaps too much with Stars and Sky (which personally I don't agree with, why can't we have two pantheons for tundra, I mean do you really want to have a tundra start where India grabs stars and sky and you are just boned?)....but I never thought hunt needed a change to its core yields.
Aurora - +1c on resources (was +1g)
Is this a Celtic pantheon I can never remember.

 

[Gazebo]

Wouldn't the median double too though? So does it do anything?

It's for UI legibility - currently, if it tells you to increase your food/production by, say, 2.25, and you increased production by 4, that '4' would only count as 2 in the UI as it is the average of food and production. So it looked wrong. This doesn't change anything mechanically, just for clarity.

 

[Gazebo]

My thoughts inline

Pantheons, @pineappledan did those, so I assumed he has a reason?

Re: happiness, see also that I uncapped happiness for cities. That's the big change. The shift for distress is largely, as you said, to shift the buckets around a bit.

G

 

[Stalker0]

Re: happiness, see also that I uncapped happiness for cities. That's the big change.

So generally that change won't effect the game pretty much at all until the Landmark phase, as you never get that much happiness in a city, except the capital. So I guess it may give a growth bonus to the capital.

Now late game once you get landmarks and public works and such, this cap may give your cities some more happiness. The real impact of that is not to address unhappiness directly but urbanization. It means more cities late game can work a number of specialists without going into local unhappiness.

So an interesting change, we will see how it goes!

 

[skodkim]

It's 5-17 Danish time now

Seriously, sounds great!

\Skodkim

 

[tu_79]

Food on hunt was needed for the tundra starts. There's not much food in tundras, and that pantheon just addressed the issue. Gold you can get it by trading luxuries. That's partially the reason I increased deer spawning in tundras.

 

[azum4roll]

Wouldn't the median double too though? So does it do anything?

I think for each yield per citizen missing from the adjusted median, you get one unhappiness for that need? Since the values are doubled so is distress.

 

[azum4roll]

So generally that change won't effect the game pretty much at all until the Landmark phase, as you never get that much happiness in a city, except the capital. So I guess it may give a growth bonus to the capital.

Now late game once you get landmarks and public works and such, this cap may give your cities some more happiness. The real impact of that is not to address unhappiness directly but urbanization. It means more cities late game can work a number of specialists without going into local unhappiness.

So an interesting change, we will see how it goes!

I don't know about you, but I usually have maxed happiness in every city since early on. I don't settle much though, even with Progress.

Is this a Celtic pantheon I can never remember.

Dance of the Aurora aka God of the Stars and Sky.

So if I understand this correctly, this means that on a Terra Style map, about half of the CS won't be counted for scaling, but then will be usable for votes at the end. Seems very swingy, I know PAD posted the thoughts about changing the CS scaling but this seems a very very strange way of doing it.

Founded, not found. All CS should have founded turn 1.

 

[Stalker0]

I don't know about you, but I usually have maxed happiness in every city since early on. I don't settle much though, even with Progress.

How many cities generally and what difficulty?

 

[Stalker0]

Dance of the Aurora aka God of the Stars and Sky.

Oh, hold the phone then. We are making Stars and Sky stronger? I feel like the current camp is "its fine and needed for tundra" vs "its so OP on certain starts its the strongest pantheon in the game".

I personally hold to the first camp but I certainly don't think Stars and Skys needs more culture.