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Very few sea resources (and reasons to settle on the coast)

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Krajzen, Aug 16, 2016.

  1. Natura

    Natura Warlord

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    Well, no, but a heck of a lot of cities are on the coast.

    Civ VI will do a much better job of showing say, London, which by the standards of previous Civ games would certainly be a coastal city, but it's really not in reality. On the other hand, coastal cities are already suffering in Civ VI by removing the potential for district tiles, so they're automatically at a disadvantage compared to inland cities that can just build a harbor district to have access to ship construction.

    One simple partial fix there I can think of is that coastal cities get a bonus to ship construction, maybe 25%.
     
  2. Denkt

    Denkt Reader

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    There is no cost for having cities so there is no need to balance costal vs inland.
     
  3. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    I think one thing that is overlooked is that 1 f 1g might be good if there are no trade post (ie gold) improvements. (Especially if there is a way to improve them)
     
  4. Mercade

    Mercade the Counsellor

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    Might make for an excellent Dutch unique ability in DLC or expansion ... Reclaimed Land: build districts on coastal water. If I recall correctly, this was already considered in an earlier version of Civ, but at the time not possible to terraform in-game.
     
  5. Siptah

    Siptah Eternal Chieftain

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    If I'm not wrong the harbor has only 2 buildings that can be build in it. What if there will be third one (and if it's only in expansions or dlc) that will give additional yields to ocean/coastal tiles?
     
  6. WiseGreen

    WiseGreen Warlord

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    The (minor) advantages we've seen so far are the bonus housing (still worse than rivers) and the eureka bonus to Sailing tech.
     
  7. MarcoFurio

    MarcoFurio Chieftain

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  8. MarcoFurio

    MarcoFurio Chieftain

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    *I mean northeast
     
  9. Homusubi

    Homusubi Lafcadio Hearn Wannabe

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    Now you come to mention it, even Kyoto is inland...
     
  10. Sansa_Stark

    Sansa_Stark Prince

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    Aren't there many more sea resources this time? I mean quantity of tiles in comparison to V.
     
  11. ProMeTheus112

    ProMeTheus112 Warlord

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    What if the city center gained an adjacency bonus from ocean tiles, like +1 food or something?
    Like districts get bonuses from mountains or rivers, the city center is a district, it could gain a bonus from ocean tiles. Come to think of it maybe it could gain a bonus from other kind of adjacent tile, just low enough. (?) like if there are 2 oceans, always better than 1 ocean? well maybe not if on that other spot there is 1 ocean and 2 mountain, +1 food +2 production.. or something o_o or not^^
     
  12. Krajzen

    Krajzen Deity

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    Nope. From what I've seen, there are only a few of them. Vast majority of water tiles are blank.

    Seriously, coastal cities seem so terrible right now that I think we'll see bias opposite to those of civ5 - avoiding coasts as much as possible and settling to grab as few water tiles as possible compared to land ones :p

    I'm honestly curious how archipelago maps look now, devs said once that they had to revamp them because of district system. I expect much, much, much fewer small (few tile) islands and instead many small-medium landmasses "capable of maintaining at least one good city".
     
  13. Atlas627

    Atlas627 Deity

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    Sure, but we haven't seen any reason why it would be a bad thing to be landlocked :lol:

    The housing bonus is slight, and I don't see why we'd need the housing bonus if many of the workable tiles can't even feed themselves (1f1g water tiles, ew).

    Haven't seen anything to suggest sea trading is different from land, and have in fact seen the opposite (both use the same unit)

    If these things don't exist, then there's no value in a navy because no cities need to be coastal and there's no ocean trade to plunder.

    But Appeal is a good one to point out. I had forgotten about it. Still though, you don't need to found your city on the coast for it, and water tiles don't have appeal (afaik). You'd still get more of those tiles, and be able to build on more of them, if you went slightly inland.

    Haven't seen anything to improve the water tiles.

    Good point about the potential for you to have double trade routes if you build both a harbor and a commercial district in your coastal cities, but again you don't need the center on the coast for that.

    Ah, map overlap. That's a good one I hadn't considered. I think that's more like a "well I guess this is the best leftover spot", which works, but isn't really *fun*. I want a good reason to found my 3rd core city directly on the coast, as opposed to founding it by another mountain range.

    Already addressed these above, but good points.
     
  14. Depravo

    Depravo Siring Bastards

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    Jesus wept. Really?

    All I'll say is that about 44% of humanity lives within 150km of the sea and that we are communicating in English not Kirghiz.
     
  15. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    and 99.9999% of humanity lives within 150 km of the land and we are communicating on devices that would not operate under water.

    They should make water tiles better..3 or 4 output by later in the game, and sea trade should be much better than land trade (although I don't think it should require a coastal city, a harbor should be enough)

    However...notice that "within 150 km" part... how many big cities are actually coastal... within say "15 km"...probably a Lot less. (which is why I think having a Harbor/coastal city should provide a major benefit for trade routes..but either one should work.
     
  16. Thormodr

    Thormodr Servant of Civ Supporter

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    Alexandria is coastal for the Egyptians.
    If Peter the Great leads the Russian Civ and his capital is the eponymous St. Petersburg then they will have a coastal capital.
    If Portugal is in Civ VI, Lisbon is a coastal capital.
    Rio de Janiero is a coastal capital in Civ VI.
    Any Scandinavian Civ will have a coastal capital.

    There are a few, anyway. :)
     
  17. King Jason

    King Jason Fleece-bearer

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    I count three - One at Celestial Navigation, one at Mass Production, and one at Electricity.

    That they use the same unit does not prevent sea routes from being more profitable.

    There are a myriad of techs that increase yields to improvements. Apprenticeship gives +1 production to mines and banking is +1 gold to quarries. These tooltips are trickier to spot in the footage since the players typically go straight for the objects within the techs themselves, causing us to potentially miss some information. Another example, there's no icon that demonstrates to us, visually, that Mathematics increases all ship movement by 1. All we see is that it allows us to build the Petra.

    Having said that, it's possible that one of the seafaring techs make coastal tiles food neutral. It's a very common trend in civ games to have the sea start with a crappy food output and then become food neutral later. Civ3 it was harbors that made sea tiles food neutral. In 4 and 5 it was the lighthouse. In civ6, both are unlocked with celestial navigation.

    As it turns out, we haven't seen the actual tooltip for celestial navigation.
     
  18. Atlas627

    Atlas627 Deity

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    I'm aware. I'm pointing out that clearly the system of 5 is not in place. So the default is that no mechanic exists, rather than assuming that it will be more profitable, a la Civ5.

    I agree, I hope this is the case. If there is no mechanic to make water useful at all, I will be sad (until they fix it in an expansion). I suspect that they'll at least make the tiles meh rather than bad, since that's been in every Civ. But really, I'm hoping for better trade mechanics.
     
  19. Seek

    Seek Deity Supporter

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    I do hope (and expect) that they add small icons to show what techs/civics boost - currently it's rather unintuive.
     
  20. fmm

    fmm Warlord

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    Unfortunately, have to discredit this theory:



    This comes from 13:06 of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sK2D53uMMXc.

    As far as I can tell, it says "Allows Traders to embark. Allows harvesting of fish."
     

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