Very few sea resources (and reasons to settle on the coast)

[qadams]

Also, if you built a city 1 tile from a ocean, built a harbor and then build a science district in between, wouldn't you get an adjacency bonus? So you might want to place your districts near the ocean, which would then make them more susceptible to pillaging/bombardment from the ocean, and therefore make it more necessary to have a navy to defend them.

Honestly, if a city is within a tile of the ocean, it'll still feel like a "coastal" city to me for all intents and purposes.

Yes, that's right. It effectively will be a coastal city — which is one of the huge differences between Civ 5 and Civ 6. A very welcome change!

 

[Thormodr]

Welcome to the forums Underground Man.

Great first post!

 

[Underground Man]

Thanks guys!

Just imagine how awesome this would be: You are India. York, the second city of your long time arch enemy, England, is focused on producing the Eiffel tower. Safely nestled between a mountain range and an seemingly impassable coastline, it is scarcely defended, right in the heart of their empire. That's when your fleet of battleships rolls up. Then envy of the world, they open fire on the defenseless city, just 3 tiles away. Under the cover of fire your elite Gurkha units, who have been defending your empire since the dawn of time, use their massive experience to scale the cliffs and quickly slip into the jungle. One assaults the city, still reeling from your barrage. The other two assume positions in the hilltop forts on the strategic rail line, which are remnants of one of your battles from a bygone era. Now with England divided, York serves as the bridgehead for your invasion force massed on the coast. Your fleet makes it's way up the coast battering harbors, districts, the city centers who happen to be just in range, and any poor bum who gets in their way. I like playing Pangaeas and hardly ever build much of a navy, and even I'm getting excited about this!

Also, with the scouting unit upgrades how awesome would it be if they have an alternate leader for France who has Partisans as their special unit, and their special ability brings back the old "Partisans taking to the hills" when one of your cities is captured, or maybe if your culture causes unrest on a neighboring civ and causes them to revolt? They could also make a Vietnam or Khmer civ and give them a special guerilla unit and give their civ a similar mechanic. Maybe a guerilla appears in every jungle tile within two tiles of a captured, friendly city.

 

[Hakan-i Cihan]

Housing doesn't have linear effect on city growth. If you have enough housing, it doesn't matter how much. Once population is close to housing, growth become slower till the point of full stop once pop is over housing for some amount.

I didn't say anything contradicting this or it isn't somethiing I didn't knew. But thanks anyway for pointing to it. My points were based on the numbers without knowing that palace did gave an additional +1 housing. Without the additional housing from the palace you would have 3 housing for a coastal capital without fresh water. Since the housing penalty starts at the point when you have filled the housing capacity up to 1 less than available, 3 housing for a coastal capital without fresh water would have meant you would already have a -50% growth penalty after reaching pop 2 and -75% growth penalty after reaching pop 3 and beyond till the hard cap. This is of course with the assumption that at that point no additional housing from farms or granary is obtained, which is highly likely since normally you don't have the tech for granary yet or build a builder for farms or pastures/plantations (which also require a tech) right away. But since the palace provides an additional housing the penalty starts at pop 3 for the coastal capital without fresh water. This gives some more time for taking measures for the penalty cap. But a coastal capital still has its other disadvantages.

For an inland capital without fresh water apparently the housing is 3, 1 from palace and 2 for settling inland with fresh water. So you have to take already measures very quickly since the penalty starts at pop 2. If you do this by building farms afaik you have to work the farmed tiles too, to take benefit of the housing. So that probably means giving up other tiles with possibly 4 yields (hills + woods/rainforest) for a farmed tile with 3 yields.

My opinion is that settling a capital at the coast or inland without fresh water has enough disadvantages to either move the settler to a fresh water in the first turn or possibly reroll ...

The shore start gives enough housing to start growth at full speed, if I recall correctly, and with additional housing from farms, etc. the city could support itself till Aqueduct.

That is true. Not only do farms give housing, but also pastures and plantations. Others have also mentioned buildings that do give housing. So the effect of the aquaduct district for housing isn't essential anymore at the point it is available.

 

[BrokenBokken]

I didn't say anything contradicting this or it isn't somethiing I didn't knew. But thanks anyway for pointing to it. My points were based on the numbers without knowing that palace did gave an additional +1 housing. Without the additional housing from the palace you would have 3 housing for a coastal capital without fresh water. Since the housing penalty starts at the point when you have filled the housing capacity up to 1 less than available, 3 housing for a coastal capital without fresh water would have meant you would already have a -50% growth penalty after reaching pop 2 and -75% growth penalty after reaching pop 3 and beyond till the hard cap. This is of course with the assumption that at that point no additional housing from farms or granary is obtained, which is highly likely since normally you don't have the tech for granary yet or build a builder for farms or pastures/plantations (which also require a tech) right away. But since the palace provides an additional housing the penalty starts at pop 3 for the coastal capital without fresh water. This gives some more time for taking measures for the penalty cap. But a coastal capital still has its other disadvantages.

For an inland capital without fresh water apparently the housing is 3, 1 from palace and 2 for settling inland with fresh water. So you have to take already measures very quickly since the penalty starts at pop 2. If you do this by building farms afaik you have to work the farmed tiles too, to take benefit of the housing. So that probably means giving up other tiles with possibly 4 yields (hills + woods/rainforest) for a farmed tile with 3 yields.

My opinion is that settling a capital at the coast or inland without fresh water has enough disadvantages to either move the settler to a fresh water in the first turn or possibly reroll ...



That is true. Not only do farms give housing, but also pastures and plantations. Others have also mentioned buildings that do give housing. So the effect of the aquaduct district for housing isn't essential anymore at the point it is available.

I also think the -50% is wrong. If I recall I think I saw a -15% in a LP... I'll have to see if I can find it.

 

[Craig_Sutter]

Looks like Venetian Arsenal can be built on water. Perhaps other wonders (Great Lighthouse/Collosus) also may optionally be built on water. Certainly a way to free up land tiles for other things.

Also, it may have been mentioned, but seige mechanics mean a coastal city is easier to defend, especially with naval superiority.

 

[skyclad]

Looks like Venetian Arsenal can be built on water. Perhaps other wonders (Great Lighthouse/Collosus) also may optionally be built on water. Certainly a way to free up land tiles for other things.

Also, it may have been mentioned, but seige mechanics mean a coastal city is easier to defend, especially with naval superiority.

Yes, 3 or 4 wonders are built on the water. And "easier to defend" is not so sure. Its harder to siege, but you are vulnerable to ships in a much bigger way.

 

[George Abitbol]

Yes, 3 or 4 wonders are built on the water. And "easier to defend" is not so sure. Its harder to siege, but you are vulnerable to ships in a much bigger way.

I was thinking about it, if such wonders are built on coastal tiles, are they passable y ships? If not, you can litterally block you coastal city with wonders!

 

[Craig_Sutter]

The Venetian Arsenal, at least, looks somewhat formidble... perhaps ships docked therein get a defensive bonus similar to a fort. Or maybe it is "terraformed" so to speak, and only land units may traverse it. Who knows?

 

[stealth_nsk]

The Venetian Arsenal, at least, looks somewhat formidble... perhaps ships docked therein get a defensive bonus similar to a fort. Or maybe it is "terraformed" so to speak, and only land units may traverse it. Who knows?

We know, for a long time. For every ship built in Harbor, there's another copy of the ship appears in the Venetian Arsenal.

 

[Craig_Sutter]

Yeah... but who knows what defensive benefits it might have, if any. That may not have been as clearly stated. I am.not certain of the info source, but it may have not been a complete description. I imagine, for example, that those wonders that are castles and fortifications must have defensive boni, but cannot recall seeing them.

Sorry...just checked. Alhambra explicitly states it has a fort bonus.

 

[kampori]

They said in one of the first videos that wonder tiles cannot be pillaged, and are passable.

 

[qwerty25]

Not exactly about cities. But now coastal tiles and districts can be pillaged by melee ships it seems

Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk

 

[chazzycat]

Not exactly about cities. But now coastal tiles and districts can be pillaged by melee ships it seems

Viking longboats, at least.

 

[chazzycat]

From the Livestream thread:

"Harald likes players who build navies and doesn't like players who neglect naval strength"

 

[Calouste]

Reasons to settle on the coast (instead of 1-2 tiles from it):

1) You are Norway
2) Your neighbor is Norway
3) Norway is in the game
4) You don't know Norway is in the game, but you rather be sure

 

[Dark_Jedi06]

Reasons to settle on the coast (instead of 1-2 tiles from it):

1) You are Norway
2) Your neighbor is Norway
3) Norway is in the game
4) You don't know Norway is in the game, but you rather be sure

I had a similar thought after watching the first look video.

 

[Hakan-i Cihan]

Reasons to settle on the coast (instead of 1-2 tiles from it):

1) You are Norway
2) Your neighbor is Norway
3) Norway is in the game
4) You don't know Norway is in the game, but you rather be sure

My answer to this would be: Norway.

 

[agonistes]

I thought exactly the opposite. Why would I play into my enemy's strengths? Especially when Norway can retreat to ocean tiles to heal.

No, if you suspect Norway may be an issue, I would stay away from the coast for awhile - unless you think you can out-muscle them.

 

[chazzycat]

I thought exactly the opposite. Why would I play into my enemy's strengths? Especially when Norway can retreat to ocean tiles to heal.

No, if you suspect Norway may be an issue, I would stay away from the coast for awhile - unless you think you can out-muscle them.

That was my thought as well until I heard his agenda. If he likes/dislikes you solely based on naval power, maybe building a couple ships will make him attack someone else.