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Very hard to expand in this game!

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by vertigofm, Oct 27, 2005.

  1. popewiz

    popewiz Warlord

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    Aug 1, 2005
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    101
    I agree with what was said earlier, even though I only have 8 cities right now, my empire does feel quite large and there's sooo much more to do now than just rushing out settlers. To be honest, I see no reason that you would need/want a lot of cities in this game, I'm doubling up the next AI's score on Noble level around 600AD and I have maybe 1 more city than the next largest civ. On top of that, with a few culture bombs, and rabid wonder building, I'm well on my way to a 3 city cutural victory (it seems like Ghandi with spiritual and industrious was made for this vic condition).
     
  2. Carver

    Carver King

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    Jan 10, 2002
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    Location:
    USA
    This is what I'm thinking. Pushing out all those settlers in C3 was repetive (and sometimes boring) labor.
     
  3. FenrysWulf

    FenrysWulf Evil Norse Wolf

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2001
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    Location:
    Naperville, IL
    Well, I'm only playing Warlord, but I was on a continent with just the Aztecs, and it took them about 4000 years to build their second city I think. So, in answer to your question, it seemed like they were really taking their time expanding.
     
  4. King Jason

    King Jason Fleece-bearer

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    Oct 21, 2005
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    2,027
    I've played 3 extensive games so far and each game I'm able to get around or above ten cities... I'll go count my last save.

    I play in huge size maps and by the time I trade world maps with everyone - we've all got some pretty hefy civs goin for ourselves.

    I look at it this way; 15's the new 40.

    If you can manage 10-15 civs it's like managing the 30+ million of cities in civ3.

    This was Noble difficulty by the way.
     
  5. UKScud

    UKScud Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    Messages:
    170
    Location:
    Hamilton, NZ
    We were told that it would be difficult to have 'huge' civs a while back. How does this seem to be affecting how you 'win' the game?

    One for the Warmongers. Has anyone achieved a conquest/domination victory yet on noble or above?

    One for the builders. Any comments on taking a civ through to launching the spacecraft, and how are people finding the new 'UN'?
     
  6. Sirian

    Sirian Designer, Mohawk Games

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    Not in my games!

    I have well over a dozen cities on a SMALL map (Ring) and that was before I attacked anybody. (I did wait until the late game to attack, though). These weren't sardines, either. Full cities, unsquished. A couple were seaside with lots of water, but only a couple.



    A lot depends on the map and settings. Some choices have more space available. Even the more crowded options leave room for more than three to five cities, though! In most cases. :)

    You can also loosen things up by playing with less than the default number of civs for a given map. Try a large map with six civs and see if you can keep up with the expanding AIs!


    Larger civs aren't impossible. They are cumbersome, though, so you have to pace your expansion according to what you can afford without going broke!


    - Sirian
     
  7. tmarcl

    tmarcl Prince

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2001
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    382
    I haven't seen that at all, yet. Then again, I've not gotten very far in the game yet, either.

    Marc
     
  8. KymeraTX

    KymeraTX Warlord

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    Oct 21, 2005
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    122
    Location:
    Texas, USA
    i was always a 6-7 city person myself (never liked making tons of cities) so this is a welcome part to my play style.

    Wish i wasnt working.......need to play Civ....

    And you need to promote that Samuri Sirian :p
     
  9. Martinus

    Martinus Emperor

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    What you guys are describing sounds very promising. I was always non-plussed by having to build and manage 30+ cities in order to keep up with the crazy city-building AI in previous Civs. :)
     
  10. southafrica

    southafrica Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2005
    Messages:
    233
    yeah, it takes no time to get into the idea of a few specialized cities, absolutely amazing... I am playing as GW (fin, org) and even without philo or spiritual, his traits are fantastic together...

    -SA
     
  11. ironhive

    ironhive Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2005
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    Location:
    TX, USA
    Considering Civ IV is the first one I will have played (delivery tomorrow!) I won't have any old habits to unlearn. It is great to hear the new play style and strategies are being embraced by long time Civ players. Changing is hard, especially when you've had a tried and true approach in the past.

    Absolutely can't wait to get started tomorrow!
     
  12. Varelse

    Varelse Rabble Rouser

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    Jul 25, 2002
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    377
    A fun way to expand is to wait until barbarians build cities in the open areas, then conquer them. It adds experience to your units and it keeps you from having to build alot of settlers. Three of my eight cities on the main continent are barbarian cities. At this point I just founded my first city on another continent, I am alone there and it looks like I'll have enough room to get up to a dozen cities when all is said and done, unless I find another continent that is unoccupied. A dozen doesn't sound like alot, but like some other people have said, in this game it FEELS like more. The eight cities on the main continent feel like 20-30 would have in civ3 as far as gameplay goes. And I love how the city on the new continent can actually produce stuff, and isn't useless like faraway cities in Civ3.
     
  13. gunburned

    gunburned Warlord

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    May 22, 2004
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    All that civ3 playing making you think the games faster than it actualy is.
    To me it is seeming to fast, I just wish the tech rate went by slower.
    Its like 3 turns for anything, once even i had 0 turns:lol: dont know if its a glitch or somethin.
     
  14. Good Omens

    Good Omens Warlord

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    Oct 4, 2005
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    Location:
    Witch City, USA
    Personally, I never liked the ICS aspect of Civ3; this feels more natural to me, especially with the cottages filling up space. The cities mean more now, their placement is more important, and the use of cultural borders is more signficant. It'll take some getting used to, but I see this as a great improvement.
     
  15. Major Mayhem

    Major Mayhem Chieftain

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    Nov 11, 2003
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    Location:
    Virginia
    I am up to 1 AD in my first game. I have 4 cities, but this is on par with the AI civs on my continent. I'm a builder, so I like building up my cities, so this seems to be working out for me.
     
  16. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    It would make sense, especially if you were researching a much earlier tech, in which case the 'rollover'/'overflow' beakers might be enough to get it.
     
  17. SilentMage

    SilentMage On the Von Braun

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    In my first game I had an empire of 8 cities (7 i built, 1 was a barbarian city I captured) by 1000AD on a standard-sized map. It didn't seem like much to me either, but I'm quickly learning that size ain't everything like it used to!!

    Also, someone also mentioned the need for less workers -- that is very true, and I love it! I have less than 10 workers running around my empire (all manually controlled) but the extra movement rate (they move 2 spaces instead of Civ3's one), Great Wonder bonuses and Civic bonuses given to worker productivity make a HUGE difference.

    I have noticed that the AI still tries to build cities simply because there is unclaimed land to build them on, even if the land offers no bonuses or city growth potential -- this I am a bit concerned about.
     
  18. fishlore

    fishlore Prince

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    Jun 28, 2005
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    I have to agree with this point. The northern part of my starting continent was a HUGE jungle and the western part was a HUGE desert. That definitely didn't stop the AI from planting several cities in each location. The problem is that the jungle and the desert in my game are so big that all that empty space must have been too tantalizing to the AI. For the most part though their city locations looked pretty logical. The empty space is still too much for them to pass up.
     
  19. jkp1187

    jkp1187 Unindicted Co-Conspirator

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    I played one game to 900AD on a medium map, in warlord (first test game,) and am currently in a noble-level game, at ~ 1650AD, on large map. The AI expansion I've seen appears to be natural. Some are more expansive than others, but their choices aren't overly stupid or anything.
     
  20. Gastric ReFlux

    Gastric ReFlux Dispatch our Tech Staff

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    I'm basically reading through Civfanatics to get my information about the game, but if this behavior is true, it sounds much like the old AI knows where the hidden resources are.
     

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