Victory Conditions

[mudblood]

I just noticed this preview from the German site GameStar explains the new victory conditions in Civ6: http://www.gamestar.de/spiele/civilization-6/artikel/civilization_6,53802,3276699,2.html. I haven't seen this posted anywhere here. What follows is my rough translation (sorry to any native speakers, my German's a bit rusty).

"Tourism is Mightier than the Sword

But how do we finish off our opponents now? Civilization 6 has five victory conditions again, but they run differently than before. The domination victory throws the revision of Brave New World overboard: We have to be the last player who keeps their original capital--but you don't have to have conquered all other capitals as in Brave New World. It is enough that everyone but us has lost theirs, no matter who the new owner.

For the science victory we must first send a satellite into space, then land on the moon, and finally establish a colony on Mars. Each of these steps requires first the necessary technology, and then the components must be built and launched into space.

The cultural victory returned to tourism, but should be less complicated. There are two types of tourists: those who go on holiday in their own country, and those who travel from abroad. We need to attract more foreign tourists to us, as all the other civs have home tourists. Things like wonders, great works of art, and trade routes make our country the number one civilization. In addition, each hex now has its own attractiveness value: a beautiful beach attracts more tourists than muddy marshland. We can transform particularly attractive areas into beach resorts or national parks and thereby inspire the masses. Other things also have their influence: The Eiffel Tower transmits the attractiveness of our lands, but next to an industrial district no one will now visit there. This makes the cultural victory into a strategically demanding task, in which the structure of our empire will figure.

The diplomatic victory is gone, replaced by the religious victory. The developers don't want to reveal yet how it works. And finally there remains the points victory. If by a certain year, if no other victory has been won, the player with the most points wins."

 

[Makenshi]

The domination victory throws the revision of Brave New World overboard: We have to be the last player who keeps their original capital--but you don't have to have conquered all other capitals as in Brave New World. It is enough that everyone but us has lost theirs, no matter who the new owner.

This is a very good step in the right direction, imo. Hopefully, it will now be possible to end the game through selective warmongering: make some friends/allies, help them beat their enemies, bring them with you to your wars [even if they just DoW but don't send troops], conquer more capitals than they do, give them capitals not wanted, etc.

It is very annoying and immersion breaking, in Civ5, to be forced into betraying that lone ally who stood by you when all the world hated you both, just in order to trigger the domination victory.

Right now I'm in a Huge Earth 15 civs domination game. 300 turns in, I own almost all eurasia [except a part of eastern russia + korean peninsula + japanese archipelago; they belong to friendly Celts], the northern half of Africa [southern half belongs to neutral-yet-respectful Greece] and all of Oceania. I also have a few well developed "colonies" in eastern North America [the rest of it belongs to a guarded Persia, the only one resisting my cultural influence].

My fleet is moving to south america in order to help allied Denmark deal with hostile Egypt once and for all, but in an ideal game, I would give everything I conquer down there to Denmark. Sadly, I'd have to keep the egyptian capital if I wanted a domination victory [and I did, but with Harald being so loyal, I'll have to switch for culture victory; I won't blamish my honor].

Beating that guarded Persia, and thus ending their cultural resistance, will ensure a culture victory. But that is the only alternative to the disonorable path of unprovoked agression that would be taken if I attacked Greece, Celts and Denmark. All nations that fell to the might of Rome were hostile; those who are not deserve respect.

If Civ 6 allows me to dominate the right and honorable way, that's very welcome!

 

[apocalypse105]

This is a very good step in the right direction, imo. Hopefully, it will now be possible to end the game through selective warmongering: make some friends/allies, help them beat their enemies, bring them with you to your wars [even if they just DoW but don't send troops], conquer more capitals than they do, give them capitals not wanted, etc.

It is very annoying and immersion breaking, in Civ5, to be forced into betraying that lone ally who stood by you when all the world hated you both, just in order to trigger the domination victory.

Right now I'm in a Huge Earth 15 civs domination game. 300 turns in, I own almost all eurasia [except a part of eastern russia + korean peninsula + japanese archipelago; they belong to friendly Celts], the northern half of Africa [southern half belongs to neutral-yet-respectful Greece] and all of Oceania. I also have a few well developed "colonies" in eastern North America [the rest of it belongs to a guarded Persia, the only one resisting my cultural influence].

My fleet is moving to south america in order to help allied Denmark deal with hostile Egypt once and for all, but in an ideal game, I would give everything I conquer down there to Denmark. Sadly, I'd have to keep the egyptian capital if I wanted a domination victory [and I did, but with Harald being so loyal, I'll have to switch for culture victory; I won't blamish my honor].

Beating that guarded Persia, and thus ending their cultural resistance, will ensure a culture victory. But that is the only alternative to the disonorable path of unprovoked agression that would be taken if I attacked Greece, Celts and Denmark. All nations that fell to the might of Rome were hostile; those who are not deserve respect.

If Civ 6 allows me to dominate the right and honorable way, that's very welcome!

Love to see the domination victory of civ 4 come back because if you conquered more then 50% of the world lets say 70% then you are dominating.. So you can still keep a ally...

There will still be situation if the world is peacefull you cant get the domination victory unless atacking yourself

 

[Atlas627]

Wait, you personally had to conquer the capitals in BNW? I am positive you didn't have to in vanilla.

Also, if this is the case, I wonder how it decides who to rank as "closest" to Domination victory. Biggest army?

It has to work this way if capitals can be razed. If you had to personally conquer all capitals, razing one would immediately make all civs unable to win Domination!

 

[Krajzen]

I like the fact diplomatic victory was removed.

Firstly, it made no sense. All other victory types indeed sound like "yeah - my civilization has achieved more than others - it dominated the world, or scientific progress, or global culture, or global religion, or them all [score]" while diplomatic victory is "uhm so my civ... bribed some politicians and declared itself to be the president... of the international organisation that has no real power... that's prestigious I guess?" and I thought few times how it doesn't really feel like a lasting achievement in civ5. When you achieve other victory types in BNW, you are dominating the world - when you achieve diplo victory you feel your civ could lose it few years or decades after the nominal end of game. Diplomatic victory didn't feel that great.

Secondly, unlike other victory types (or spreading global religion, though civ5 had no religious victory) which required long term thinking and effort across the entire game, diplo victory had no particular strategy. You could achieve it as any empire, of any character, as long as you had either money or luck. There weren't even any buildings, wonders or civ bonuses to help achieving it (with very few exceptions, like forbidden palace or greece).

Thirdly, it could be bought with money very quickly, which lacked any momentum, tension or fun. In general, it felt as if you were buying the victory, not working towards it.

So I'm fine with Religious Victory. Maybe it doesn't make sense with some religions IRL, but it works with others (100% Muslim world would be pretty much the "victory" of Arabic civilization, same with Judaism-Israel or Hinduism-India) and it generally seems to be making much more sense and fun than diplomatic bargain.

 

[mudblood]

I suppose the new standards for the scientific victory mean that you'll have to start investing your production in that victory earlier in the tech tree, which means that overall it will be a bigger investment than it is in Civ5.

I'm most interested in everyone's reactions to the new cultural victory, since it seems to have had the biggest overhaul. I suppose the change was necessary once they created the civic tree, as culture points themselves began to serve an in-game purpose rather than a victory purpose. The biggest change seems to be that the victory will require a lot of thought when it comes how you place your cities and where you place your districts, even in the earliest parts of the game. Also, it's not clear to me what the mechanic is that differentiates between local and foreign tourism--there must be some mechanic which allows you to attract foreign tourists, but prevents them from arriving so early you win the game with a great work of art from a goody hut in turn 50.

 

[Ryika]

But how do we finish off our opponents now? Civilization 6 has five victory conditions again, but they run differently than before. The domination victory throws the revision of Brave New World overboard: We have to be the last player who keeps their original capital--but you don't have to have conquered all other capitals as in Brave New World. It is enough that everyone but us has lost theirs, no matter who the new owner.

<insert heavy facepalm here if that's true>

Why would anybody do such a thing? Hooray for accidentally winning the game by domination without ever doing ANYTHING?

Why don't they just do a proper "Own X% of the world"-overhaul?

 

[Wolle68]

Things like miracles, great works of art, and trade routes make our country the number one civilization.

For a while, I thought "WTF? Miracles confirmed?"

No, I'm pretty sure "Wunder" translates as "wonders" in this context.

 

[mudblood]

For a while, I thought "WTF? Miracles confirmed?"

No, I'm pretty sure "Wunder" translates as "wonders" in this context.

That's embarrassing. Thanks for catching. Edited.

 

[mrwho]

Hmm.

Whilst diplomatic victory has never been too well implemented, I would have much preferred a rework akin to the Civ V culture victory than just removing it. It's a good concept, but just poorly executed.

The domination victory is a little odd, given that you could accidentally win it without ever going to war if you get lucky. I think it's mostly a good thing, though, because in the majority of games it just saves a little tedium at the end. Hopefully there will be some sort of caveat like 'be the last civ in control of their capital, and control at least x% (map size dependent) of other capitals).

I'm really excited to hear more about the religious victory, and happy to hear the science victory changes.

 

[gfeier]

I think it's unlikely that ALL the other civs will just happen to lose their capitals unless you help them along a bit.

 

[LDiCesare]

I'm not liking the idea of diplo victory removed and replaced by religious victory.
CivIV diplo victory was more or less having the biggest population, and frankly come end-game, ending the game in victory because you're the biggest is all I want. Having to slug through 50 more turns just to have the highest score or to grind through an opponent's army is boring.

 

[gfeier]

I usually found that when I was the biggest civ, I was also within reach of a scientific or cultural victory.

 

[Ryika]

I think it's unlikely that ALL the other civs will just happen to lose their capitals unless you help them along a bit.

Yeah, it's unlikely, but it will inevitably happen here and there.

Just as you will end up with situations where you realize that you only have to take the capital of that neighbor of yours because everyone else lost their capitals.

Or that moment you take the biggest warmonger's capital by nuking and rushing him in 2 turns and win although he owns 80% of the map.

Without further restrictions the "Be the last to hold your capital!"-victory is just dumb.

 

[Haggbart]

Or that moment you take the biggest warmonger's capital by nuking and rushing him in 2 turns and win although he owns 80% of the map.

That should unlock the Steven Bradbury achievment

 

[Silverdawn]

At 5:47 BA takes London and the star next to the city name switches to Manchester so England probably still has a capital:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyMcocNLfSU

So maybe it automatically picks a new one, but you can build the Palace if you want to move it elsewhere.

 

[King Jason]

The domination information is incorrect. You still need to conquer the capitals of every civilization.

Either the translation is off or the previewer misunderstood.

 

[Kozmos]

Or that moment you take the biggest warmonger's capital by nuking and rushing him in 2 turns and win although he owns 80% of the map.

I don't know it felt pretty great parking subs and establishing cities in terrain hellholes and parking a crapload of nukes and XCOM drop troops, then in a single turn executing a strategic nuclear decapitation of 8 capitals and dropping XCOM troops to take over the cities on the next turn. It's a damn shame near-future warfare is never elaborated upon more in Civ games. CTP 2 was fun for that very reason.

 

[Makenshi]

The domination information is incorrect. You still need to conquer the capitals of every civilization.

Either the translation is off or the previewer misunderstood.

I still wish the condition was: "You need to conquer the capitals of every civilization, except those who are allies".

So in a 10 civs game, if I ally 2 and conquer the other 7, it would be sort of an alliance victory, in which I'm the big dog because I rule over 8 capitals. The allies didn't actually win, but they're happy to be alive and healthy under my muscly wing.

 

[darko82]

I like the fact diplomatic victory was removed.

It still may be back.