[NFP] Vietnam & Kublai Khan Developer Livestream Discussion

Zaarin

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Ever hung out with a bunch of military conscripts in between shifts?
I kind of figured that was the reference. My first thought with tobacco just happens to be Professor Tolkien smoking his pipe. :D

Spoiler :
 

anonxanemone

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Tobacco giving bonuses to military is a weird one to me, though.

My theory is that tobacco is a perk for the G.I.'s chewing and smoking like chimneys but, like you say, I'd prefer it boosted Faith.

Hmm, it seems that caffeine from Tea makes you better at science, while caffeine from Coffee makes you better at culture. :lol:

Tea is a vehicle for philosphical exchange in my mind.
 

Myomoto

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Yeah, tobacco really seems like it should be a faith boosting resource?

This game mode looks really great. I like how all the different aspects roll out with time through the eras, very nice to finally see a game mode that actually unfolds over the game. I still really think it was a mistake to make many of the game modes active right from the start of the game - for example I don't think Secret Societies should have become active until the medieval era...

Confirmation of a large April patch also makes me hope they're aiming to put in a final free game mode, and basically it will be the end of development of 6. Send it off with a bang :goodjob:
 
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I'm sure the Whales are a reference to whale oil, but I really want a War Whale unique unit now. :mischief:
At least that sounds better than my first instinct. I thought it was a reference to practicing harpooning/spears on whales. :shifty:
 
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I think it was more that they were trying as much as they could to put things in semi-logical categories. Amber is used sort of religiously, so makes some sense as a faith boost. And then DIamond/Silver/Jade are mostly used in Jewelry, so more of a pure gold thing. Mercury is obviously associated with scientific research, so makes sense in that mark. Marble and Gypsum are used as building materials, so they make some sense there.

Sometimes they stretch things. Oranges being in Military almost certainly related to their anti-scurvy uses in the past. And otherwise looks like they tried to make sure that there weren't more than 4 luxuries in any bucket. I would imagine Tobacco would otherwise be maybe a faith bonus resource, (or maybe culture in the same theory that Coffee is there), but those got filled, so you can sort of imagine tobacco I dunno being used by soldiers in trenches, or that the Tobacco Industry funds the military Industrial complex? I dunno - probably just a "well, nothing really works". Although now that I check back, I see military is actually the category with 5 items in it, so curious there.

I agree that Diamonds, Jade, and Silver are appropriate for jewelry and therefore Gold. We do use Diamonds and Silver for manufactory purposes nowadays, but they're not really fitting for buildings, civilians, and military outfitting.

I was just trying to point out that rather than providing more from a production based improvement, having a variety of yields is probably the goal.

I do think Tobacco could go a few places, but Culture is stacked already as you indicated and Faith could be a decent alternative depending. However, I don't think its super inappropriate either. Half jokingly, I'm thinking of the Tobacco as boosting military production due to Officer benefits; as you suggest "Whatever Works".
 

DWilson

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Maybe they satrt a second season or a new XP with april. We don't have to think negative on this information. It only says 2/3 get's patchted/reworked not that Civ 6 gets put away or so.
I think assuming nothing more, but hoping there is, is the safest approach.
 

Josephias

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25 Gold (not 25%!?) seems... very lackluster. I’ve certainly had games where in the industrial and later I’m earning in the upper hundreds or even thousands of GPT. For securing every copy of a resource across the globe, I’d hope for something more than half an extra trade route.

+25 is the base, and then iirc, it is +5 for each civilization you are trading with. Still just a fixed figure, but then there is the tourism


The major outliers are productive Cottons, faithful Ambers, scientific Spices, and no culture for Jades, etc.
Guess Jade can belong to this group as will, Jade Luxury is already culture-yielding anyway. A similar observation can be made for Tea, Tea Luxury is already science-yielding, so give them a science bonus should be fine. I would say Olives is fine - probably a reference to the importance of olive oil in ancient (and modern) Mediterranean daily life.

I completed my list with the resources currently provided by each one and my own impression on the selection. Just personal opinion and open to debate of course, but it was an interesting exercise.

Faith Industries (+25% Faith :c5faith:)
Incense (+1:c5faith:) - I don't think anyone tough this one was not going to be in religious.
Pearls (+1:c5faith:) - Maybe not the first one that comes to mind, but pearls do have certain religious simbolysm
Amber (+:c5culture:) - Used for beads and holy simbols, fits religious more than other groups, I think. (mabye science)
Dyes (+1:c5faith:) - Well, it provides faith already, so maybe is OK, but dyes have multiple uses and might apply to much other groups (science (lots of research to determine how they work and can be reproduced) and culture (art, theater, fashion) come to mind, or maybe switch to military (banners, uniforms) for tobacco)
Alternate Candidates: Tobacco (+1:c5faith:), Jade(+:c5culture:)

Gold Industries (+25% Gold :c5gold:)
Diamonds (+3:c5gold:) - Representing precious gems, link to the tresaury is clear
Silver (+3:c5gold:) - Representing precious metals, same as above.
Truffles (+3:c5gold:) - Highly valued, scarce and difficult to obtain, may be considered "precious" as well
Jade (+1:c5culture:) - Maybe the outlier, represents semi-precious materials used in jewelry as ivory or pearls could as well. I think is well classified here, yet is not such a clear options as the previous. culture and faith would fit it as well.

Culture Industries (+20% Culture :c5culture:)
Silk (+1:c5culture:) - I can't think it in a better place than cultural, albeit some challenges could be made.
Wine (+1:c5food:, +1:c5gold:) - wine is France, France is culture, a bit cliche link, but it works. You'll drink wine if you want to look cultured.
Coffe (+1:c5culture:) - Best association is probably the coffehouses and the intellectual/political discussion in them. I don't see that as a product, but the fit is correct, altough is a correct fit. (Tea would seem OK here as well because of the same)
Alternate Candidates: Dyes (+1:c5faith:), Tea (+1:c5science:), Spices (+2:c5food:)


Science Industries (+15% Science :c5science:)
Mercury (+1:c5science:) - Of all the culture table, I'd say this one is the one I would associate more with science and scientific industry, so good fit.
Turtles (+1:c5science:) - Specially if they are Galapagos, they provide science :). In any case, turtles are the animal resource that I would consider more linked to sientific study.
Tea (+1:c5science:) - While I see it more of a "cultural" thing due to the British image, 'pedia gives a good point regarding medical qualities. Extending it to consider all medical infusions, science is a good fit.
Spices (+2:c5food:) - The hardest fit here and in the video tooltip @12:27 says its +20%:c5culture:, so it might be a civilopedia errata (@Andrew Johnson [FXS] you might want to have a look). I think they would be a good fit for culture (spices differentiation for regional foods) or food (as basic food preservers/modifiers like salt and sugar are there, spices just claims to be in the list)
Alternate Candidates: Dyes (+1:c5faith:), Citrus (+2:c5food:), Cocoa (+3:c5gold:)
(

Food Industries (+20% Growt / + 3 Housing :c5food::c5citystate:)
Salt (+1:c5food: +1:c5gold:) - a primordial food preserver and seasoner, salt sets the trend of this group.
Sugar (+2:c5food:) - also a basic and energetic component of foods
Honey (+2:c5food:) - everything said for sugar also applies to honey
Cocoa (+3:c5gold:) - valid as well as a remarkable ingredient, altough a bit more obscure than others which could be considered (citrus, spices). I could see it in science instead (even if only for the increased chocolate bar consumption when you are studying something)
Alternate Candidates: Spices (+2:c5food:), Citrus (+2:c5food:)

Building Production Industries (+30% Production towards buildings:c5production::c5citystate:)
Marble (+1:c5culture:) - see below
Gypsum (+1:c5production:,+1:c5gold:) - see below
From all luxury resources, marble and gypsum are the ones which can be used large-scale (and not just as decoration) in masonry, therefore this group is pretty obvious, even if just steals the "quarry" resources from any other group. Marble production bonus to wonders of civ4 and civ5 is missed, though.

Civilian Production Industries (+30% Production towards civilian units :c5production::c5citizen:)
Furs (+1:c5food:, +1:c5gold:) - Might be argued to be in military, but I feel it fits better in civilian. I'd say Fur is more appreciated for cold protection than for self-defense or easiness to buid clothes from it (see cotton).
Olives (+1:c5production:, +1:c5gold:) - I agree olives is fine as a reference to the Mediterranean, yet I don't know why I see it more as military (and I would use citrus here instead for a "mediterranean" reference, or even cocoa). - and yes, the dove with the olive branch is symbol of peace and goodwill, but olives -> rome -> legions. Take your pick :)
Alternate Candidates: Cocoa(+3:c5gold:), Citrus (+2:c5food:)


Military Production Industries (+30% Production towards military :c5production::c5war:)
Cotton (+3:c5gold:) - Altough it caugth me by surprise, I think cotton is a great fit here, if you consider uniforms and armor padding.
Ivory (+1:c5production:, +1:c5gold:) - Both ivory and wales meet the same idea: strong bone tools and tokens taken from "land monsters "- what's better for military morale?.
Whales, (+1:c5food:, +1:c5gold:) - As commented for ivory, just in this case, taken from "sea monsters", and with even more users.
Citrus (+2:c5food:) - Yes, the use of citrus to keep seamen healty is insisted by the 'pedia, and would have bought it if it was +30% production towards naval units. It may be argued it may apply to land armies too, but I still see citrus more in food or civilian production or food. Even in science, if you want to focus in the vitamins.
Tobacco (+1:c5faith:), - May help troop morale, yes, but does not seem specifically military. I'd rater set it as religious (smoking ceremonies) and bring dyes here.
Alternate Candidates: Dyes (+1:c5faith:), Olives (+1:c5production:, +1:c5gold:), Cocoa(+3:c5gold:),
 

Myomoto

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Maybe they satrt a second season or a new XP with april. We don't have to think negative on this information. It only says 2/3 get's patchted/reworked not that Civ 6 gets put away or so.

Anything is possible, of course. I just personally see the NFP as what we got instead of a BE-style 'half step' where they do an elaborate overhaul. I think we can potentially expect a few small patches with mainly focus on bug fixes, and then it's going to be Civ 7 news time soon.


Burning amber was used as a kind of incense in both ancient Rome and China for religious ceremonies - it definitely fits as a religious resource.
 
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Jade (+1:c5culture:) - Maybe the outlier, represents semi-precious materials used in jewelry as ivory or pearls could as well. I think is well classified here, yet is not such a clear options as the previous. culture and faith would fit it as well.

Culture Industries (+20% Culture :c5culture:)
Silk (+1:c5culture:) - I can't think it in a better place than cultural, albeit some challenges could be made.
Silk could definitely yield culture too but I'd link it to the Silk Road and produce gold so it could switch with Jade. At least Jade to me fits more culture. :)
 

theRoyzen

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I think assuming nothing more, but hoping there is, is the safest approach.
Yeah that a healtyh way to look at it.

Anything is possible, of course. I just personally see the NFP as what we got instead of a BE-style 'half step' where they do an elaborate overhaul. I think we can potentially expect a few small patches with mainly focus on bug fixes, and then it's going to be Civ 7 news time soon.
Well, the small patches I hope for, and at the same time, I hope for a long time for Civ 7 to come. Cuz first of all, I don't want to play a half-baked game like civ 5 and civ 6 was at the release, second i would prefere an approche like with smash for switch, but instead of the fighters, all the civ. But that will be a dream for ever I guess, except I could buy Firaxis, what I can't, sadly.
 
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No, but @Boris Gudenuf has. Maybe.

Having started my military career during the Draft Army of the Vietnam War, no Maybe about it!

Tobacco was a major component of Military Morale throughout the twentieth century: as another poster noted, there was a 3-cigarette 'tobacco ration' included in every pack of C-Rations in WWII (and they were still issuing some of them in 1965 at Fort Hood - one of my buddies was smoking Lucky Strike Green Pack cigs that had been packed before he was born!). Even armies whose countries didn't have access to easy tobacco supplies, like the Germans and the Soviets, still issued tobacco to the troops.

BUT
I'd still go with the Religious and even the Diplomatic effect of Tobacco among the Native Americans as a better, or at least alternative, effect . . .
 

Zegangani

King
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So, upon completing a Project that grants a Resource Product, would I be able to produce more of that same Product?
 

anonxanemone

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Can someone explain the Tourism mechanics of Monopolies? As I understand it scales with the number of monopolies luxury resource that other civilizations do not have but what would be the multiplier?

Also, do we know the Product yields besides the base 1 Tourism per turn plus special yields (e.g. Tea was shown to have +3 Science)?
 

Duke William of Normandy

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anonxanemone

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For those of you who are more visual, here is a chart summarizing the resource bonuses:



Let me know if there are any inaccuracies.

Edit: Do Spices grant +15% Science or +20% Culture?

I added some more details about Monopolies and a little more on Industry and Corporations.



The Product yields are what I reckon they will be. Product yields for Coffee and Tea were revealed during the Developer Update and Developer Livestream videos, respectively. Please let me know if you have any detailed information on the Tourism mechanics for Monopolies. Thanks!
 
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