[NFP] Vietnam & Kublai Khan Pack (January 2021) - Patch Notes Discussion

Still, l would like to point out the fact that the Corporations gamemode doesn't introduce any downsides, limits, or costs. The no-penalty-only-opportunity-cost meta really occupies the whole development cycle Civ VI; I think it is the biggest difference between Civ VI and previous Civ games, which had mechanics such as corruptions, unhealthy, unhappiness, etc. Since Civ VI is near the end of its development, I can only hope that somewhere in the future, an inner challenge of maintaining your empire can be a problem to solve instead of a harshness to get rid of.

This is exactly the part some people always complain about as being not fun. Even now, amenities is the first thing people mod to avoid dealing with in Civ6. That's why it has to be that way.
 
So, I turned off Heroes and Legends, and got to play a game that lasted past the Classical Era. I chose the Inca, as that is one of the civs I see utilizing the new Preserve district well. Here are my thoughts on the new features after playing a normal length game:
  • I will definitely be playing with Monopolies and Corporations on, I like it
  • M&C is a nice example of a new feature which actually interconnects with other parts of the game in a meaningful way
  • I still think M&C was done a bit better in Vox Populi, in part because I like the global bonuses, in part because it included strategic resources as well, in part because of the resources diversity, and in part because the UI was so much better
  • M&C in Civ VI has Products, however, which is a nice idea
  • The UI for M&C is really lacking, though. I get to see how many resources I control out of the global total, and...that's pretty much it. Want to know which Industry or Monopoly opportunities exist? Visually search the map. Want to know what bonuses you could get from a resource? Check the Civilopedia. Want to know where your Industries and Corporations are? Visually search the map. Want to know what benefits you are getting from your Corporations? Look at city yields. Want to know what you are getting from your Monopolies? Check the tooltip in the Culture Victory window. And so on. Everything is just scattered everywhere.
  • I actually don't mind the "crazy" tourism yields from Monopolies. They came late in the game for me, and at that point, I wanted the game to end soon.
  • I tried out Vietnam briefly, but didn't like it. The placement restrictions for districts with little benefit to compensate just didn't do it for me. I think the Maya are a better example of a turtle civ with interesting placement restrictions.
  • I really like the new Preserve District. Some civs, like the Maori and Inca are going to benefit extra from it, but it's a nice addition to the game for any civ.
Overall, I'm quite pleased with this update. I was really tired of Civ VI, but now I feel like playing a few games again. :)
 
So, I turned off Heroes and Legends, and got to play a game that lasted past the Classical Era. I chose the Inca, as that is one of the civs I see utilizing the new Preserve district well. Here are my thoughts on the new features after playing a normal length game:
  • I will definitely be playing with Monopolies and Corporations on, I like it
  • M&C is a nice example of a new feature which actually interconnects with other parts of the game in a meaningful way
  • I still think M&C was done a bit better in Vox Populi, in part because I like the global bonuses, in part because it included strategic resources as well, in part because of the resources diversity, and in part because the UI was so much better
  • M&C in Civ VI has Products, however, which is a nice idea
  • The UI for M&C is really lacking, though. I get to see how many resources I control out of the global total, and...that's pretty much it. Want to know which Industry or Monopoly opportunities exist? Visually search the map. Want to know what bonuses you could get from a resource? Check the Civilopedia. Want to know where your Industries and Corporations are? Visually search the map. Want to know what benefits you are getting from your Corporations? Look at city yields. Want to know what you are getting from your Monopolies? Check the tooltip in the Culture Victory window. And so on. Everything is just scattered everywhere.
  • I actually don't mind the "crazy" tourism yields from Monopolies. They came late in the game for me, and at that point, I wanted the game to end soon.
  • I tried out Vietnam briefly, but didn't like it. The placement restrictions for districts with little benefit to compensate just didn't do it for me. I think the Maya are a better example of a turtle civ with interesting placement restrictions.
  • I really like the new Preserve District. Some civs, like the Maori and Inca are going to benefit extra from it, but it's a nice addition to the game for any civ.
Overall, I'm quite pleased with this update. I was really tired of Civ VI, but now I feel like playing a few games again. :)

I think Vietnam's district rules make for a fun challenge. I'm still unsure if planting forests early is enough of a bonus to compensate for the district placement rules, but it's at least an interesting challenge. I like their other bonuses - "free" encampments means you can get basically all the generals, and them plus the forest movement/combat means you get to play some weird strategic plays in combat.

But yeah, Inca with preserves is a little broken. Basically, hill next to mountain = terrace farm. Flat next to mountain = preserve. I'm a little unsure about the preserves as a whole - like, they're really cool as a new feature, but like, they come really early, and I just don't know how to balance them vs other districts. Like, is a preserve for 2 breathtaking tiles worth it? Or should I just build a campus/commerce hub/holy site/etc... as normal? But I definitely like how you finally have a real reason to look for appeal, and make for some big yield tiles if you get the right setup.
 
But yeah, Inca with preserves is a little broken. Basically, hill next to mountain = terrace farm. Flat next to mountain = preserve. I'm a little unsure about the preserves as a whole - like, they're really cool as a new feature, but like, they come really early, and I just don't know how to balance them vs other districts. Like, is a preserve for 2 breathtaking tiles worth it? Or should I just build a campus/commerce hub/holy site/etc... as normal?

IMO playing as Inca already means Terrance Farm, Campus, HS, and Aqueducts are competing with the limited tiles next to mountains; the player need to decide which one is the best choice. And now Preserves entered the chat as a piece of the problem as well.

I always view this "mountainside tiles opportunity cost" as the uniqueness of playing as Inca.
 
Practically though, a Preserve is always better than a Terrace Farm, and arguably is better than the districts either (if Conservation didn't come so late). So my thought is to pick the best site for the Campus, the second best for the Preserve, and then fill in the rest with Terrace Farms or Aqueducts as appropriate.
 
Some brief observations:

- I really like the preserve. It's great to have an early building based around improving appeal, which gives more incentive to go for earth goddess when a district that helps is around the corner. It's also just a great idea that adheres to the 'play the map' philosophy of Civ and because it arrives early game it allows you to plan. Just a nice idea all around.

- Again, corporation's is pretty fun and some of the bonuses are cool, and can encourage a bit more specialisation between cities. The tourism bonuses are too high as people mentioned already, but its definitely a game mode I'll leave on.

- The AI are still super aggressive about razing cities, which doesn't seem intended.

- I've noticed trading with the AI has seen a slight tweak to negotiating offers. If the blanket amount for clicking on a deal item is too high the AI will not negotiate and you will have to change your offer. A small change but it caught me out slightly.
 
- The AI are still super aggressive about razing cities, which doesn't seem intended.

Shhh, don't complain, they might change it! One of my issues with the game was that the AI almost never razed cities, so I'm happy to see them a bit more aggressive now.
 
I think Vietnam's district rules make for a fun challenge. I'm still unsure if planting forests early is enough of a bonus to compensate for the district placement rules, but it's at least an interesting challenge. I like their other bonuses - "free" encampments means you can get basically all the generals, and them plus the forest movement/combat means you get to play some weird strategic plays in combat.

But yeah, Inca with preserves is a little broken. Basically, hill next to mountain = terrace farm. Flat next to mountain = preserve. I'm a little unsure about the preserves as a whole - like, they're really cool as a new feature, but like, they come really early, and I just don't know how to balance them vs other districts. Like, is a preserve for 2 breathtaking tiles worth it? Or should I just build a campus/commerce hub/holy site/etc... as normal? But I definitely like how you finally have a real reason to look for appeal, and make for some big yield tiles if you get the right setup.
Yeah, the Preserve does mix things up, which is one of the things I like about it. As the Inca, it was always interesting trying to figure out the best use for tiles next to mountains. Finding some flat spots certainly makes the process easier. :) The Preserve is actually good enough to compete with Terrace Farms, Campuses and Holy Sites. In my last game, I got to squeeze in two Preserves in a narrow valley in between two mountain ranges. Of course I also went for Earth Mother. The tile yields for those mountains were pretty good.

I might give Vietnam another go later. I do generally like civs with unique placement contraints, but I like it when there are some added opportunities as well, not just restrictions. The Inca are a good example of a civ which has a lot of unique opportunities because of how they use mountains. The Maya are a great bonus/malus civ. They have a pretty significant housing malus initially, but at the same time, their added benefits from farming and their unique Campus replacement means I am always looking at the opportunities when playing them. Mali and Maori are other examples.
 
I wonder if the AI with appeal benefits will be able to leverage preserves.
 
So a minor gripe is the builder recommended actions is recommending building improvements next to preserves. Would be nice if the game didn't recommend building improvements next to preserves. I have to check myself so I don't accidentally do it.
 
So a minor gripe is the builder recommended actions is recommending building improvements next to preserves. Would be nice if the game didn't recommend building improvements next to preserves. I have to check myself so I don't accidentally do it.

More importantly, the AI will do this. The AI needs all the love it can get.
 
And it's too bad preserves don't carry over into coast tiles. I thought they might, but then I noticed coast tiles don't have any appeal. So on certain maps these aren't that useful. I had built one in my Kublai Khan Mongolia game on the coast and only later realized I didn't get anything for the coast tiles. Oh well.
 
And it's too bad preserves don't carry over into coast tiles. I thought they might, but then I noticed coast tiles don't have any appeal. So on certain maps these aren't that useful. I had built one in my Kublai Khan Mongolia game on the coast and only later realized I didn't get anything for the coast tiles. Oh well.

Yeah, I always found it a bit odd that coast didn't have appeal. I think they should, and should be able to be part of national parks (but within reason, of course). Same applies to preserves
 
Yeah, Preserves are very, very weak because their appeal bonus is identical to those of Theatre Squares, Holy Sites and Entertainment Complexes. Just a flat +1 to adjacent tiles. This needs to be increased or altered somewhat.

It's a real pity that the Civs I would prefer to be using this district with (such as Vietnam, Kongo and Maori) get no mileage out of it because rainforest and marshes have terminal appeal penalties.

It's pretty decent with the Inca though. Inca's ability to work mountain tiles means they can put Preserves right next to a mountain wall and boost its yields by a larger amount than a Terrace Farm could.
 
Yeah, Preserves are very, very weak because their appeal bonus is identical to those of Theatre Squares, Holy Sites and Entertainment Complexes. Just a flat +1 to adjacent tiles. This needs to be increased or altered somewhat.

It's a real pity that the Civs I would prefer to be using this district with (such as Vietnam, Kongo and Maori) get no mileage out of it because rainforest and marshes have terminal appeal penalties.

It's pretty decent with the Inca though. Inca's ability to work mountain tiles means they can put Preserves right next to a mountain wall and boost its yields by a larger amount than a Terrace Farm could.

It's not so bad with Vietnam, though. You can chop those rainforests and plant woods instead. Teddy makes good use of it, too.
 
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